The Future of Compensation for TF2 Mappers: A Community / Valve Discussion

[henke37]

Voice does not need to loop. Nor is there a real need for it to work in the preview. Besides, if a format doesn't work in the preview then that's a bug.

Finally, why use MP3 on voice? MP3 is a rather old codec (1991) and isn't specialized for voice. Didn't Valve add a new, modern, voice codec a couple of years (2011) ago?

 

[takabuschik]

Those would be the people whose "computers" are actually tablets, I'm guessing? I imagine those people only play games like Angry Birds and Candy Crush.

That's mine
Like, my computer is using standard keyboard, mouse, screen etc. so it is clearly not a tablet (it's a standard pc), but has only 70 gb on the hard drive. I use an external drive to save all my stuff, but programs and such must be on the main hard drive.
With tf2 reaching ~20 gb, there's not much left.

 

[henke37]

Not only that, it's plain inefficient. The tf2 team would get laughed at for being this inefficient.

 

[EArkham]

Like, my computer is using standard keyboard, mouse, screen etc. so it is clearly not a tablet (it's a standard pc)

One could argue that it's not a standard PC by virtue of it having only70 GB.

For the same price as a non-refurbished 70 gb HD, you can get a new 500 GB one (~$50-$60 US). And that's not even the cheapy video survelliance ones.

 

[Pocket]

Finally, why use MP3 on voice? MP3 is a rather old codec (1991) and isn't specialized for voice. Didn't Valve add a new, modern, voice codec a couple of years (2011) ago?

You're thinking of the SILK codec they use for mic chat; that's licensed from Skype and probably can only be used for streaming.

Any compressed format would cut down considerably on the audio size. MP3, OGG... heck, even FLAC. You'd still be left with >9GB, though, which isn't that much better than 11 if you're trying to cram the game onto a system with under 80 gigs (somehow; seriously what is your computer taka? even second-gen MacBook Airs have more space than that) and plan to download more than a few custom maps.

 

[YM]

Despite continuous mentions that we're way off topic here you're all still yammering on about downloads??

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Back on topic: what is a simple solution that Valve could implement that could make them money, and reward mappers with money?

 

[wareya]

Selling map access. But it's not acceptable, and everything else is a compromise.

Minigames only make money if they're time-constrained or map-specific.

Map stamps don't encourage buying them enough.

Revenue from items is a contentious revenue splitting problem.

Etc.

An acceptable system would *Not restrict access to maps *Be timeless, not resulting in revenue falling off infinitely after the map is released *Not introduce any extra complexity into who gets what money *Actually encourage people to spend money

 

[Fruity Snacks]

How can we encourage people to buy more stamps.

 

[iiboharz]

How can we encourage people to buy more stamps.

Make stamps more rewarding than just a leaderboard of who's bought the most stamps. Give players more incentive to support map makers.

Maybe more exclusive (and cool cosmetics) that are untradable and only attainable through map stamps?

I'm not the best at this, bottom line in my idea? Give stamps more value.

EDIT: ALSO!!!!

AS they did with the cosmetics for Scream Fortress 2014, maybe have items/cosmetics that track stats on that particular map?

Maybe implement "Map stats" strange parts that track all the same stats (and strange part stats you already have on the item) but only for that particular map?

 

[henke37]

Make map stamps a trading currency. They are stamps aren't they? Can't they be used to pay "portage" somehow?

 

[iiboharz]

Make map stamps a trading currency. They are stamps aren't they? Can't they be used to pay "portage" somehow?

I'm pretty sure this would flop but I'm not entirely sure how the TF2 economy works so I can't say for sure.

 

[EArkham]

The trading community is very resistant to new currencies. You can't really force that short of making 3 stamps craftable into a key or something equally drastic.

For starters:

1) The current trade filters are terrible. They don't track kills on a particular map, they make ALL your kills with that strange track on JUST that map. These need to work like a traditional strange part. For example, "Coldfront kills: 5, Frontier kills: 23", not effectively ruining your strange for all other maps.

2) Stamps need to do something. For example, buy a stamp for a map, and for the next 24 hours on that map (and only that map), your droprate increases. Or have them be an actual item in the backpack, and apply it to a crate to increase the unusual unbox rate by 1% (one time) if unboxed on that map.

3) Special "event" crates for all custom maps. Let the map creator(s) pick up to five items from the workshop to go in the crate (pending Valve approval of course), and have them ONLY drop on that map. The crate can be a standard template with a treasure map nailed to it, maybe even the map's stamp image on it. Have the crates give a chance of giving strange cosmetics and generation 1 unusuals.

Unfortunately relies a bit heavily on modelers, but at least by letting the mapper(s) pick the items, they could pick cosmetics that fit the theme of the map, pick ones made by the mapper(s), or have new models made with the mapper(s) as co-authors. Or at the very least, ensure that items in it give a share to tf2maps. It also makes a new map a mini-event.

 

[Seba]

I'm surprised strange filters are still a thing; I'd like to talk to whoever decided they shouldn't be normal strange parts, find out if there's a (sane) reason for that. IMO increasing drop rate with stamps and adding map-specific strange parts are the most viable ways of incentivising custom maps.

 

[UKCS-Alias]

2) Stamps need to do something. For example, buy a stamp for a map, and for the next 24 hours on that map (and only that map), your droprate increases. Or have them be an actual item in the backpack, and apply it to a crate to increase the unusual unbox rate by 1% (one time) if unboxed on that map.

Its unreliable. A normal pub player has no influence on the next map and for that reason will get a huge downside since he might not even get a chance to play that map on his favourite server. The effect realy should be longer lasting, idealy being kinda permanent.

Not only that, the effect should be visible. Keys only have value because of the unusuals you can get with it, MvM tickets again have visual results due to australium chances. Its why they are considered trading currency. A map filter even with its cost just doesnt do anything visual except if you would look at the item using the inspect key. Its totaly useless.

The map stamp effect while taunting does a little, but its by far not enough. Its barely visible and very time restricted. Why not having that trail constantly? Or become extra visible the more you killed like the killstreak kits (and the more stamps you bought, the more visible the effect will be - so for example someone with 5 kills and 1 stamp has the same effect as 1 kill with 5 stamps).

It still isnt permanently visible, but if you paid a bit more, it will be very good visible very fast.

 

[leprecan]

The trading community is very resistant to new currencies. You can't really force that short of making 3 stamps craftable into a key or something equally drastic.

For starters:

1) The current trade filters are terrible. They don't track kills on a particular map, they make ALL your kills with that strange track on JUST that map. These need to work like a traditional strange part. For example, "Coldfront kills: 5, Frontier kills: 23", not effectively ruining your strange for all other maps.

2) Stamps need to do something. For example, buy a stamp for a map, and for the next 24 hours on that map (and only that map), your droprate increases. Or have them be an actual item in the backpack, and apply it to a crate to increase the unusual unbox rate by 1% (one time) if unboxed on that map.

3) Special "event" crates for all custom maps. Let the map creator(s) pick up to five items from the workshop to go in the crate (pending Valve approval of course), and have them ONLY drop on that map. The crate can be a standard template with a treasure map nailed to it, maybe even the map's stamp image on it. Have the crates give a chance of giving strange cosmetics and generation 1 unusuals.

Unfortunately relies a bit heavily on modelers, but at least by letting the mapper(s) pick the items, they could pick cosmetics that fit the theme of the map, pick ones made by the mapper(s), or have new models made with the mapper(s) as co-authors. Or at the very least, ensure that items in it give a share to tf2maps. It also makes a new map a mini-event.

The stamps are in a very uncomfortable place entirely because to improve the draw of them would be to alter trading/hatfortress 2 in some way.

The Strange Filters are incredibly lackluster as you said, but that is partly due to player map habits. For the most part, the majority of servers run 2fort, dustbowl, goldrush .etc Valve has a relatively good balance of servers for each gamemode, but has a bias towards certain gamemodes like ctf/sd. The custom maps don't draw people in very much despite getting praise. cp_fastlane as of this post has more concurrent players than cp_process, cp_gullywash or cp_yukon.

In terms of ideas I had spinning around:

Stamps need some reason to be bought. I feel that appealing to the completionist aspect of a "Stamp Collection" would be the best way to incentivize it and keep the thematic device. So, why not make a Passport? Everyone gets a passport that would track how many points you have accrued, points captured, kills done in varying ways and would rank your performance on the map like a Strange weapon. You can wear it like a badge that players can inspect in game for the map currently being played. The stamps would rank up the Passport itself but not the individual map pages. The only way this would get people playing the custom maps would be to get them to feel some need to put numbers on a page, but its better than nothing.

Looking back at the Duck Journal, I had another idea. I would have liked the Journal more as a donation method in EOTL if the ducks weren't incessantly quacking and spewing out of every capture point and player like a fountain. That said, people liked collecting ducks. People bought the duck journals. Instead of the previous Passport idea, or as an attachment to it, make stamps or something burst out of players on custom maps. Stamp collecting in game, just like the ducks. Except fewer Merasmus soundclips and less quacking. The Stamps for the map would then give multipliers to the numbers of stamp thingies that would appear and alter the point count once there are too many stamps flying around.

Then all the people who like having something to pick up get something more to do until the next duckstravaganza. I mean, Valve likes money from those sorts of things right?

 

[EArkham]

3. Ughhhh. The Duck Journal. I would have liked it more as a donation method in EOTL if the ducks weren't incessantly quacking and spewing out of every capture point and player like a fountain.

I wasn't actually suggesting a duck journal or similar idea as #3. What I was suggesting was giving the mapper more control over what promotionals are associated with the map, as well as what contributors get paid in association with said map.

Just clarifying that point.

 

[leprecan]

I wasn't actually suggesting a duck journal or similar idea as #3. What I was suggesting was giving the mapper more control over what promotionals are associated with the map, as well as what contributors get paid in association with said map.

Just clarifying that point.

Oh sorry, I just realized the formatting of my post mimics your list too closely. I'll edit it to better reflect what I am saying. I intended for my list to be standalone but then quoted your 3 point list right above it :S

 

[Toomai]

Here's my idea: Turn map stamps into killstreak kits. Stamped weapons act as basic killstreak weapons on most maps and specialized/professional killstreak weapons with otherwise-unattainable effects on the matching map. Weapons can have multiple stamps applied (to a point), and applying more of the same stamp increases the "stamps applied" counter and does...something (maybe turn it from specialized to professional, or increase the effect's power). Selling a stamped weapon through Steam Market gives a cut to the mapmaker.

Example:

Sophisticated Killstreak Wrench
Greetings from Gullywash (15 stamps)
Has Time for Turbine (10 stamps)
Frontier Freedom (1 stamp)

Whatever stamp is most common would have its filter prefix displayed.

 

[xzzy]

Back on topic: what is a simple solution that Valve could implement that could make them money, and reward mappers with money?

I honestly don't care about money at this stage. An effective workshop where users can browse maps and mappers can post maps for easy download should be job #1. It should have been in place years ago. It would completely change the mapping scene overnight if players just automatically downloaded the latest version when it was made available.

We really, really need infrastructure in place before anyone can talk money.

I think the value proposition to Valve is "more maps, more player retention, more keys sold."