What roof is too thick? What pipes are you referring to?
- Thread starter MegapiemanPHD
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Which roof though? Do you mean all the roofs? Also those pipes by the silo are not using a lighting origin.
IrishTaxIDriver
L6: Sharp Member
- Sep 27, 2008
- 271
- 150
Those yellow pipes are strikingly cool. They're so cool its actually making the rest of the map more bland to me. It really reinforces the chemical plant theme but you're not utilizing them. They're screaming out to be used in cool and unique ways. Put catwalks on them, use them as blockers, etc. lean into the chemical plant a bit more and you'll really have a winning theme here. I'd also recolor the red ones to be a more striking color like the yellow ones. Keep the yellow accents for BLU and find a color that works for RED.
I'll leave the gameplay feedback to people who've actually played it but layout wise it feels very porus and unfocused to me. Especially the center, there are four paths winding around the center point. When I think KOTH, I think less is more with a well defined center, like Viaduct. My shot in the dark impression is that the lower wide path at the center is unnecessary. Its very wide but its a flank, which confuses your path widths.
I think you're too slavish to the symmetrical layout the farther away you get from the center. My chief complaint is a naggy art one, the curved blue platform on the lefthand path out of the blue spawn feels wrong, but I know its that way because the red side one is curved. Will it hurt the design to keep that one orthagonal? I don't think so.
I like a lot of your set dressing, my main complaint with it was at the top, so I'll talk about the rest. I see cool little clever bits like the boards blocking gaps in the pipes that players can fall down, and the aformentioned pipes being used to cut some sliver shots to the center point. The best maps always reinforce design with set dressing so that design feels natural, and I'm getting that with some of your areas. Keep it up!
Portals wise, I see two huge merging portals at both spawns that are hurting you for performance, they're not letting any portals between them close. I see some spots of overuse as well, like the little shacks on either side of the point that have three. I think one across the back of the shack might serve your performance better and you'll cut out four portals. There are some other tricks to keep portals from merging but I've long forgotten them, I'm sure some of the more technical people here could chime in with that info.
Overall, a good effort!
Side note: Your youtube videos are great. Its nice to hear your process and the issues you encounter and how you solve them. It really gives me a picture of how you work. Definitely keep doing that.
I'll leave the gameplay feedback to people who've actually played it but layout wise it feels very porus and unfocused to me. Especially the center, there are four paths winding around the center point. When I think KOTH, I think less is more with a well defined center, like Viaduct. My shot in the dark impression is that the lower wide path at the center is unnecessary. Its very wide but its a flank, which confuses your path widths.
I think you're too slavish to the symmetrical layout the farther away you get from the center. My chief complaint is a naggy art one, the curved blue platform on the lefthand path out of the blue spawn feels wrong, but I know its that way because the red side one is curved. Will it hurt the design to keep that one orthagonal? I don't think so.
I like a lot of your set dressing, my main complaint with it was at the top, so I'll talk about the rest. I see cool little clever bits like the boards blocking gaps in the pipes that players can fall down, and the aformentioned pipes being used to cut some sliver shots to the center point. The best maps always reinforce design with set dressing so that design feels natural, and I'm getting that with some of your areas. Keep it up!
Portals wise, I see two huge merging portals at both spawns that are hurting you for performance, they're not letting any portals between them close. I see some spots of overuse as well, like the little shacks on either side of the point that have three. I think one across the back of the shack might serve your performance better and you'll cut out four portals. There are some other tricks to keep portals from merging but I've long forgotten them, I'm sure some of the more technical people here could chime in with that info.
Overall, a good effort!
Side note: Your youtube videos are great. Its nice to hear your process and the issues you encounter and how you solve them. It really gives me a picture of how you work. Definitely keep doing that.
Thanks for all the feedback.
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I'm a bit limited with the yellow pipes since they are from Merc park and are both rather specific and swap to low detail rather quickly but I'll see what I can do with them.
- When it comes to the map being symmetrical, I stick to it as much as I can since the map is designed for competitive play and they focus largely on consistency, so even though the detailing is asymmetrical all of the geometry needs to be symmetrical.
-I'll see what I can do about the lower flank path, it's something that I need to address but I'm not really sure what to do with it.
-The reason why I have the large portals at the spawn areas is due to how skybox brushes mess with visibility. There are areas that need to be seen from both sides of the building and therefor have to be rendered. I don't know a ton about optimization but I'll see what I can do with it.
Again thanks for the info and I'm glad you've been enjoying the dev log vids
Yes but these roofs in particular.
It's too thick.
The pipes have strange lighting.
This is definitely origin lighting probably because the model has normal map or something that prevents it from being compiled with vertex lighting.
IrishTaxIDriver
L6: Sharp Member
- Sep 27, 2008
- 271
- 150
Thanks for all the feedback.
-
I'm a bit limited with the yellow pipes since they are from Merc park and are both rather specific and swap to low detail rather quickly but I'll see what I can do with them.
- When it comes to the map being symmetrical, I stick to it as much as I can since the map is designed for competitive play and they focus largely on consistency, so even though the detailing is asymmetrical all of the geometry needs to be symmetrical.
-I'll see what I can do about the lower flank path, it's something that I need to address but I'm not really sure what to do with it.
-The reason why I have the large portals at the spawn areas is due to how skybox brushes mess with visibility. There are areas that need to be seen from both sides of the building and therefor have to be rendered. I don't know a ton about optimization but I'll see what I can do with it.
Again thanks for the info and I'm glad you've been enjoying the dev log vids
Ah yeah, if you're not model inclined then thats limiting. I like how you've used them so far and I think you could repeat that element in other places easily though.
Fair point about competitive.
Maybe just close the lower flank? What was the issue that the route addresses?
There has to be some way to fix that portalling issue, because it is hurting your performance overall. Thats not really an issue these days with computers being exactly 5000x more powerful than they were when the game came out, but still. I feel like they encounter it a lot in the official maps and don't have a problem with it.
The flank exists to provide a way past the point without having to go through the point area. The stair exit can be seen by anyone on the point so if someone uses it and aren't invisible, they can still easily be spotted but it gives players a chance to get around a strong defense and means defenders have to check multiple directions while holding the point area. I combined ideas from koth_arctic and koth_coalplant to make something similar but not an exact copy.
IrishTaxIDriver
L6: Sharp Member
- Sep 27, 2008
- 271
- 150
Hmm, I'll trust you on it. I feel like theres a more elegant solution there than another path though.
-fixed custom silo props being full black when using medium texture settings or lower
-thinned roof brushes
-made flank route at mid smaller
-optimization
-detailing
-attempts at optimization
-attempts at detailing
Read the rest of this update entry...
-thinned roof brushes
-made flank route at mid smaller
-optimization
-detailing
-attempts at optimization
-attempts at detailing
Read the rest of this update entry...
-fixed lighting bugs
-redid optimization in an attempt to make it not suck
-detailing hither and thither
Read the rest of this update entry...
-redid optimization in an attempt to make it not suck
-detailing hither and thither
Read the rest of this update entry...
Beater
L1: Registered
- Nov 25, 2017
- 31
- 174
You should really post this map to TFTV's forums. Comp players don't check this site. http://www.teamfortress.tv/forum/2/map-discussion
-changed grate texture to no longer allow explosions through it
-fixed clipping issues
-some optimization
-detailing in 1st transitional building for blu
-fixed shadow and lighting issues
-removed health from side building by mid
-removed small ammo at mid
-changed health in 2nd transitional building to small and changed health outside the mid side building to a medium
-fixed prop fade issues
-general detailing
-changed wooden planks leading onto upper catwalk between 1st and 2nd transitional building to a metal structure
-closed wall gap by stairs in 2nd transitional building
-fixed sniper sightlines behind large pipes by mid
-fixed props not being non-solid
-changed some textures to be more uniform
-fixed ability to get outside of map
Read the rest of this update entry...
-fixed clipping issues
-some optimization
-detailing in 1st transitional building for blu
-fixed shadow and lighting issues
-removed health from side building by mid
-removed small ammo at mid
-changed health in 2nd transitional building to small and changed health outside the mid side building to a medium
-fixed prop fade issues
-general detailing
-changed wooden planks leading onto upper catwalk between 1st and 2nd transitional building to a metal structure
-closed wall gap by stairs in 2nd transitional building
-fixed sniper sightlines behind large pipes by mid
-fixed props not being non-solid
-changed some textures to be more uniform
-fixed ability to get outside of map
Read the rest of this update entry...
Hey, I've been doing a bit of custom texture work for models (mainly here (oh hey you actually commented on this)), so if you want, I could definitely get you some custom textures for those pipes. I personally like the yellow, as I feel it's a bit of a signature element to the maps aesthetic, but I can understand why you might want them changed. Also, what are the grate textures that cause explosions to go through? I might want to take a look at their .vmt's to see if I can make variants that don't do that.
I also noticed around 17:26 that there pipe to the left had weird lighting on it; to fix this, you should compile with -staticproplighting.
I also noticed around 17:26 that there pipe to the left had weird lighting on it; to fix this, you should compile with -staticproplighting.
I'd be interested in seeing a white texture or perhaps slightly less bright yellow one if it's something you are up for. I like the yellow as well but do agree with some feedback I've received that it can be a bit TOO yellow at times. Someone said they almost look Neon when used in an outside environment.
When it comes to the odd lighting, it's due to how the lighting is done on the prop since I always compile with -staticproplighting. Those props take the lighting from the origin and apply it to the whole thing and it's been giving me trouble with this map. Source things ya know.
-added clipping to ceiling of side buildings by the point
-fixed clipping issues throughout the map
-edited lighting values in multiple places
-changed detailing in tunnels to make them more distinct from each other
-changed doorway from inside tunnels to outside so it should be less likely to get stuck on when rocket jumping out of
-fixed sticky bombs explosion going through awnings at mid
-changed detailing of upper blue side building at mid to match upper red side building
-fixed signtline from upper outside roof area at the 2nd transitional building that let snipers see all the way across mid
-moved around health and ammo by point area
-changed detailing in blu's first transitional building right side to better match that area on red side
-added jimmi jam
-probably some other things I don't remember
Read the rest of this update entry...
-fixed clipping issues throughout the map
-edited lighting values in multiple places
-changed detailing in tunnels to make them more distinct from each other
-changed doorway from inside tunnels to outside so it should be less likely to get stuck on when rocket jumping out of
-fixed sticky bombs explosion going through awnings at mid
-changed detailing of upper blue side building at mid to match upper red side building
-fixed signtline from upper outside roof area at the 2nd transitional building that let snipers see all the way across mid
-moved around health and ammo by point area
-changed detailing in blu's first transitional building right side to better match that area on red side
-added jimmi jam
-probably some other things I don't remember
Read the rest of this update entry...