surge of "gimmick" maps?

[The Asylum]

To be honest, I really don't care about the aesthetics of a map. It could all be done in that awful orange/gray dev textures for example. The only two things that really matter to me are:

A) It works

and

B) It doesn't give any one class an insurmountable advantage *cough2fortcough*

 

[DJive]

To be honest, I really don't care about the aesthetics of a map. It could all be done in that awful orange/gray dev textures*

See me personally, i'm on the FAR otherside. I don't know why but aesthetics are highly important to me.. I'd even put aesthetics above gameplay... I'm odd i guess.

IMO, because for at least one person, that gimmick map is fun. Why does there need to be any other reason?

Rt3407, i think you are missing my point. I'm not in anyway at all saying there is anything wrong with gimmick maps, or bad with them. I was just wondering why the sudden surge of them.

 

[Foreverkul]

I was just wondering why the sudden surge of them.

Answer: They are easier to make.

 

[DJive]

Answer: They are easier to make.

Tons more i agree, but i think its something more then that...

Maybe more and more people are tired of seeing standard custom cp/ctf maps, are they getting bored?

 

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

People tired of whats out, and think that if their gimmick is the next best thing they can leave a mark on the game? I mean, Vilepickle talked about how unrewarding it is to map for this game, which I find to be especially true with "hey, its another cp/ctf/pl map" (the latter more recently of course). I don't think its a matter of trying to change the game, but more of make a map that stands out/will be remembered.

My first tf2 map was indeed a gimmick map, being ctf with 1 flag, which can spawn at any of 4 locations. It was a bad map for other reasons, but I think once I get better the concept could prove to be an enjoyable style. ./shrug

 

[Spacemonkeynz]

With the official game system being as limited as it is, people just get a little bored mapping a CP or CTF map, so maps such as these are born.

I don't think it's limited, with access to triggers and the round_win entity, there are lots of different possibilities.

Only what's on the hud is limited.

 

[Foreverkul]

are they getting bored?

Answer: Yes, current options do not provide enough creativity and people are now trying new paths.

 

[YM]

Answer: Yes, current options do not provide enough creativity and people are now trying new paths.

You are mad. There are so many things left to be done within the normal confines of the standard cp/ctf/pl/tc maps I've got enough ideas to be mapping till I die.

The problem is people make one off gametypes that are poorly thought out and simply suck, so no one else uses it, meaning we have a bazillion shit maps each with thier own game type. If these idiots were actually smart enough and devoted anough to make a decent game type, polish it and release a prefab for it (all praise to roden for actually doing this) then that would save us from all these 'gimick' maps.
The other option is for new mappers to stop thinking they are the shit, because they are not, they suck. its plain and simple: if you've never made a map before then the map you make will be total shit, regardless of how super awesome you think it is.

I mean seriously; I was mapping for nearly a year before I had the balls to release anything, and even then I made a pretty shit map (anyone remember cp_station..........) but then the next map I released (bloodstained) I improved but had still not perfected the art, and hopefully map #3 (hoodoo) will be one step closer to my goal of being on par with the stock maps.

Most of me wants to discourage places like this, here its so easy to get your first shit-box map tested and get good feedback mappers dont have the fear of the evil comunity that they should. So mappers are fine with releaseing their very first map as something they are proud of. WTF! would an art student release the very first crayon doodle they did as a child and be proud of it? hell no! Of course they wouldn't, they probably want to hide it away in shame and never let anyone see it. THAT is how you should feel about probably your first, second and probably your third mapping attempt (attempt not public release).
Yes a big part of me wants to tell 80% of the comunity here to buck up their ideas and go back to actually playing and let those with devotion release maps for it. - you can still map in secret, sharing with your friends though, thats after all, a good way to start. (its what I did)

Basicly what I'm trying to say is:
We are seeing plenty of gimicky maps or shit maps because of places like this, encouraging mappers to map. We're all too nice and willing to test people first maps rather than tell them it sucks like we should - then only the ones who REALLY want to map will keep going, only the ones with the dedication to stick it though will learn from their mistakes and improve themselves.

Number of times I re-wrote this post: 3

 

[Snipergen]

There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who understand art-direction, and those who don't.

And I agree with youme, only I sometimes say that it's shit. Than people see that as a personal attack and I'm an asshole. However I mostly say why it's shit and they can improve it by practice etc... I mean you first map is never gonna be valve quality!
About the creativity, I already said what I wanted to say about that

 

[Foreverkul]

You are mad.

No, you are mad. Some people want to do something non-conventional unlike ctf/cp/pl/tc and it has nothing to do with art-direction.

 

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

You are mad. There are so many things left to be done within the normal confines of the standard cp/ctf/pl/tc maps I've got enough ideas to be mapping till I die.

You may have ideas for maps, but those maps will always be cp/ctf/pl/tc. Thus when you boil it all down, you have the same basics, though the maps my differ wildly. There are deviations within the gametype, such as making a cp map that is not linear (well), round based (dustbowl), or 2 points then a third (gravelpit). Yet are those maps then not a gimmick? One particular map comes to mind, cp_steel. Seems like it would be a fun map, since I've yet to play it on a populated server, and it is definitely well done. But it is also a gimmick. It deviates from the norm set by valve, yet works within their system.

 

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

Here is something from a WIP thread:

This map called pl_switch is not a simple payload map. It has something special. It has switches. You can change the way of the bomb with standing in an area to change the route. You need to stand there at least 5 seconds.

Note, I don't mean anything negative towards the author, just think this is a great example. He has made a map that works within the payload system, but it "is not a simple payload map. It has something special." Thus it is a gimmick, even if hes not trying to create a new gametype. My point is that there are a lot of gimmick maps out there, though some are far more extreme than others.

 

[YM]

I would not say that cp_steel is a gimmick map really, nor would I say single briefcase ctf map is a gimmick map.

Its not just a variation on the gamestyle that makes a gimmick map

edit: nope, not even pl_switch is a gimmick map

 

[cornontheCoD]

youme, about someone releasing their first map.
what would you consider a first map? If the person has mapped for other games before, then they are probably going to have a better map than if they have never mapped for any game before. would you consider a map that was the authors first TF2 map but not their first map ever a valid map to release?

also, honestly, not all of us have friends that enjoy video games. It fells really lame when you spend 100+ hours on a map and then you think you shouldnt release it because "it is your first tf2 map." how are you supposed to get feedback? how are you supposed to know what you did good and bad? is it suposed to just go untouched on your computer, never to be downloaded?

 

[DJive]

It fells really lame when you spend 100+ hours on a map and then you think you shouldnt release it because "it is your first tf2 map." how are you supposed to get feedback? how are you supposed to know what you did good and bad? is it suposed to just go untouched on your computer, never to be downloaded?

my-first-maps aren't always peoples "first" map, when peopel use the "my-first-map" term its the ones people upload that spend about 2 hours on it.

 

[YM]

I don't mean first map for tf2, if you've mapped for other source games, or even other game engines then you've already got experience.

And feedback is over rated, seriosuly. I've seen loads of mappers saying "I can't do any more untill you tell me what I need to do to it" bollocks to that! you can see it doesn't look anywhere near as good as valves maps, find what the difference is and try to rectify it, yourself.
If you can't manage that simple task you will never be a great mapper, simple as.

 

[Sacrifist]

yeah warpath just isnt fun and it definatly isnt pretty(i didn't even know there was a breakable wall)

The person making it should put their energy into making it a good map rather than making 20 different versions of it. I mean come on, why would we want a sandy version a grassy version, a snowy version, each of those but at night.........why? there is no point!

Um, players asked for them and there isnt a grassy version (at least not by me). Ive released 4 versions. I dont bring maps to TF2 for my own little art gallery. I bring them to TF2 because there are people that want to play them. Its really just that simple. I have my own reasons for their look. If you cant stand to look at them, then dont play them. They are made for a specific crowd.

 

[YM]

If you cant stand to look at them, then dont play them.

don't worry, I don't:thumbup1:

 

[Sacrifist]

don't worry, I don't:thumbup1:

good :thumbup:

 

[AWESOME-O]

it just want to say FY ALL because warpath is one off the best maps! But if i say FY ALL it wont be polite, so i dont say FY ALL WARPATH IS THE FRIKING BEST MAP, i just say:
Warpath is the best map there is
edit: except mine, mine is better >