Made by tovilovan
Great feedback, seba, I'll be sure to take a look at this!
New alpha version is out, a8 this time!
Changelog a8: Fixed a few bugs, mostly visuals
Changed mid a bit to make it a bit easier to flank the team holding mid, and also to make it easier to avoid sticky spam
Started detailing mid (couldnt keep my hands off...)
Somewhat fixed a nasty sightline where you could snipe mid from second respawn.
A few smaller fixes.
I love the many flanking routes. I had a lot of fun with those.
Apart from that, when attacking the last point the spawn feels really weird. And at the last point, some sentries are a bit hard to find and destroy with the height difference and the cover of the trees and the boxes.
Tyker summed up last pretty well.
This route was barely used, and if at all, it was by me. If there was a way up from where I'm standing in that pic and if the ramp led up to the platform with the logs, it'd be much more useful.
Updated to a9 version!
Changelog a9: Reworked the flank area to make it more useful as a flank rather than an attack route
Continued detailing mid and a bit of second as well
Flipped the map to illuminate RED rather than BLU side on mid
Rebuilt the RED side to remove some balance issues, now both sides are identical
Small fixes and changes
Would really appreciate input on the detailing on mid.
Had a few bugs in a9, fixed in new a10 version:
After quite of while of silence, I am now getting really close to the beta stage of the map. However, before I release the first beta I'd really appreciate if someone could give some more input on my detailing than just "it looks good" or "you are suxor ))". If anyone feels like taking a quick look at the current a11 version and see what they think about the detailing, that would be superb.
PM me if you're interested.
Just throwing up a few screens of what to expect from the first beta. Also I'd like to thank supersandvich for the brilliant dawn sky and lighting setup, and also Vig for finally making a fullsize crane!
Also throwing in an oldschool picture to see what I've had to work with.
Huge update out: Beta 1!
changelog b1: First beta release
Detailed entire map
Reworked the final area severely
Changed sky and lighting, thanks supersandvich for the awesome sky texture!
Added windows from second capture point to lobby
Bump for any gameday feedback
Remove the trees around CP1. They break player sight lines but are too easily exploitable by sentries and sticky traps. So use something else if need be.
CP2 was fun and so was your mid. Though my biggest gripe is routes that don't look like routes until you take them. Such as your window frame that has no collision. I didn't know you could jump through it until i saw some heavy jump through it (and was like "wtf, he jumped through a framed window").
I noticed the map was particularly difficult for spy's and were it not for some excellent engineer play with their dispensers i would have said there was a lack of ammo drops. You might also consider adding one or two small health packs in secluded corners.
CP1 was incredibly difficult to defend. It takes a fair amount of time to even see your point after spawning and after which it's just as difficult to shoot at. I suppose what i'm saying is it's incredibly difficult to back cap 2 and when it has happened it's almost instantly re-capped by attackers. Defenders are also always at a height disadvantage; not to mention that attackers always have the weapon orientation advantage: playing as soldier was incredibly easy, a lot of the time i just blind fired the doorways, got rage and buff bannered our way through defences to cap.
Thanks a lot for your feedback, grazr! I agree on most of what you said, and in the b2 version I'm currently working on the trees are gone from cp 1. I'm curious about what caused cp 2 being hard to recap. I suppose it's mostly because there are too few ways from last to second for defenders, and because they are too easy to hold. On the other hand the map is aimed at comp play, where backcaps still dont occur unless there is a serious uber or player advantage. I guess it still applies in that environment as well.
thanks again for the feedback!
What made it hard to cap back was how incredibly difficult it is to push out from the CP1 area and into the CP1-2 divide. RED could just setup camp on the left flank by the health and ammo (away from CP2) and it would just be a case of getting what ever abilities players had to charge, whilst camping+spamming the doors before finally pushing out.
I can see how it is comp orientated, mostly by the amount of open space and travel distances involved. But that said, i thought comp players considered it a bad thing to have doors in a map?
It does make it easier for defenders to defend, but it makes it equally as hard to attack (and with the handi-caps not in their favour it's more important to push out). That may or may not be intentional but i find that it takes away a lot of the excitement when you know that once you've capped CP2 and dug your heals into the CP1-2 divide that you're just waiting to deliver the killing blow.
But this is speaking as a public player so feel free to disregard that opinion. It's one of the reasons i dislike badlands (how difficult it is to re-take and hold CP2), and that 5cp maps are disliked by pub players in general. So you could just as easily consider this positive feedback if it does indeed reach your aims.
You've made an important point. What makes badlands good (and in a way granary bad) is that the attack routes for attackers and defenders of cp1 are not the same. In this map any push from last will probably end up facing an equal push ONTO last, which will in the end lead to either a stalemate or a steamroll from attackers. WIll have to look at possible flanks for defenders.
Great thanks everybody who commented through tf2stats and played the map on gameday, you found lots of good stuff that I'm working with right now. The main changes in b2 will be the removal of the trees on the final capture point as well as making it a bit easier to reach from the spawn. I'm also working a bit with how the lobby area connects to the yard, to make backcaps a bit more convenient.
Expect a new version some time soon!
Updated to beta 2 version, addressing a few balance issues, particularly in the area between the first and the second cap.
Download link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_b2.bsp.bz2
Added a flank leading from last to second to allow for sneaky backcaps (thanks grazr for your feedback)
Made it easier for defenders to reach the last capture point
Removed the trees (finally) and reworked the sightlines on last.
Added some detail to hide the fact that there is no 3d skybox
Hopefully this version gets a bit more playtime than its predecessor received... I can't do much without your help!
Bumped for gameday feedback, hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did
Some feedback in the pictures, I liked the map overall. Big improvements on final!
Screen 1: I thought I could jump over there as a scout. Maybe make it higher or remove the clip on the boxes and wood so it can be used or so it does not look passable any more.
Screen 2: Hey, I recognize that! Though also in granary, I think it's too small and it is too much of a hassle to get through. maybe scale it up a bit?
Screen 3: When exiting the spawn, I always run into that pillar. Maybe move the door slightly to the left or right so it's easier and quicker to get out.
Thanks tyker, I've thought about these three myself and it shouldnt be too hard to fix it.
On a sidenote: did I mention that Drag is the best map I've ever played?
I have a good game on this map. The only big probleme I saw is the lack of clipping everywhere. Congrats!
Separate names with a comma.