Question About Navmeshes (Green/Purple Vertical Lines in Navmeshes)

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by AlbinoMunchkin, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. AlbinoMunchkin

    AlbinoMunchkin L1: Registered

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    Hello TF2Maps community!

    A friend of mine decided to make a payload map a while ago and I chose to test it out with bots for 'balance'. I know a bit about how navmeshes work and I know that I shouldn't use bots for testing map balancing and stuff like that, but I enjoy working with bots... so I took up the task of creating an official navmesh for the map.

    Now, there's those vertical green/purple lines that appear at walls and corners. From enough searching, I think that the green vertical lines represent map-made corners (at least as best as possible) and the purple vertical lines indicate a flat section of a wall, a part where a bot can freely press itself against. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Now, here is the question: Is it possible to force a wall navmesh (purple vertical line) into a corner navmesh (green vertical line) without editing the map itself? The bots are not intelligent enough to pass by this supply cabinet (they get stuck on the left-hand side of the cabinet): [​IMG]
    There's another cabinet on the left side of the window, but the vast majority of bots go this way so I can't tell if the same issue occurs.
    I've tried manually remaking the navmesh several times. I tried removing the navmesh located in the cabinet (shown in the photo) [no special effect], removed all the navmeshes in the room [the usual; standing still], checked the wall for connected navmeshes [there's none], did minuscule nav_generate_incremental generation in the room [no special effect other than taking a long time to do it all], added nav_avoid logics [didn't help], and removing higher-than-the-floor navmeshes from the other wide of the wall (there's a crate that had a navmesh on it) [no difference].

    I feel like the only possible solutions are to actually change the green/purple vertical lines by force logics, move the supply cabinet or add an invisible wall. The latter two are definitely not what I want as a solution, but if they are the only choice I will abide by it.
    Also I'm unsure if this is related, but the default navmesh for Dustbowl has a similar effect; if BLU captures the first point at stage two and doesn't have enough momentum to capture the second point, the bots get shoved in the right-hand supply cabinet room. I don't think they're related via supply cabinet-wise.

    I should mention that I have no knowledge how to use Hammer. I make all navmeshes in-game unless that's the only way to make them. I will relay any information related to map-editing over to my friend, if need be.

    If there is a completely different solution I'm missing, feel free to share it! I'm completely open to suggestions that are different than what I think are the only ways to fix this problem.

    If you could help me with this issue that would mean a lot to me and my friend. I would also like to thank you in advance if you have an answer!
    Also I apologize if the tags are bare/incorrect.
     
  2. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord L0: Crappy Member

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    Due to the nature of dynamic props, they are regarded by bots as nonsolid. All I can recommend is using nav_split and nav_avoid to make a large emptu box in the navigation mesh around the cabinet.

    BTW, the command nav_avoid does not actually do anything. If you have an area you want bots to avoid, just delete that section.
     
  3. AlbinoMunchkin

    AlbinoMunchkin L1: Registered

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    Thank you! I will take this into account when I next edit the navmesh. Hopefully this'll do as intended.
     
  4. AlbinoMunchkin

    AlbinoMunchkin L1: Registered

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    I think this is what was meant in Da Spud Lord's post: [​IMG]
    I have cleared out the navmesh in the room, rebuilt it on the back wall (furthest right-side of picture), and allow the navmesh to occupy up to half of the room up until that farthest right navmesh rectangle. I added rather thin, presumably far-enough navmeshes, with a nav_precise logic connecting the main room to the doorways. The bots still happen to run into the supply cabinet. I think I'll try adding the smallest amount of navmesh soon just to see how that does (literally a small square and an awkward rigid U look attached to the doorways).
     
  5. AlbinoMunchkin

    AlbinoMunchkin L1: Registered

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    I tried the U-like navmesh shape for the room and tried to make it as small as possible, but it's so small it doesn't work. However, it did seem to help a lot of the bots that could path on the navmesh.

    The friend took this information and he's going to add an invisible wall. Now, I know nothing about Hammer editing but I would assume there would be Player-restricted walls and NPC-restricted walls simply because Engineer bots can step through their own Sentry Gun, meaning that Sentries are Player-restricted walls.

    Thanks for the help! If the issue isn't fixed once the map is updated, I'll probably come back here about it.
     
  6. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord L0: Crappy Member

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    It would seem so, but I believe you can't place bot-only or player-only walls in a map in Hammer, since TF2 treats TFBots as clients. Engies passing through their own buildings is a special exception, probably because Valve was too lazy to make engie bots path around their buildings.
     
  7. AlbinoMunchkin

    AlbinoMunchkin L1: Registered

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    Ah, all right. I guess that is logical that bots are identical to players via coding, but there was a possible chance they could've been different like actual NPCs in Half-Life 2.
     
  8. AsG_Alligator

    aa AsG_Alligator trigger_hiss

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    You can encompass the cabinet prop in a playerclip brush. It will make the volume solid for nav_generate but it will not block bullets.

    Just match the size of the cabinet with that playerclip brush.