pl_halfacre

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by YM, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. HojoTheGreat

    HojoTheGreat L5: Dapper Member

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    The overlays look fantastic, well done! Any thoughts on making team colour-specific ones, or just keeping them neutral?
     
  2. Ida

    aa Ida deer

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    Found a tiny issue yesterday.

    [​IMG]

    Needs some better clipping right there, I got stuck when I went from the ramp to the slightly elevated ground.

    Other than that, I entered the game when there was about ten minutes left, so I didn't even notice any changes.
     
  3. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    Ok, regarding the area near the first choke point, this is the first idea that popped into my head. The goal is to make it a little narrower to force more intense action here since it's relatively spread out right now. The first change is on the track side...

    [​IMG]

    Obviously my building sucks, but you get the idea... something to narrow the track side just a little bit. This could also be a bump-out or prop on the other side of the track, which could also make for an excellent sentry location if it were buildable.

    Inside the building is the only part of the map I find kind of boring. It gets loaded with snipers and spam and doesn't seem to generate any interesting gameplay other than "fall down/move up/shoot". I think reducing the length would help protect the room on the defender's side a bit, plus it would give the attackers a good forward base area to push that choke point. This is the first idea I came up with...

    [​IMG]

    Basically, you change one of the doors to a window that cannot be shot through (the upper door) and raise the other one up (the lower door) so the attackers can drop out to attack. The floor in that room would have to be extended over to the wall and you'd obviously need some detailing to fill in the big space around the window.

    Here's another sketch from the other side, which includes some sort of props to allow defenders access to the room. Obviously it's still hard for them to get in, so it works similar to a 1-way gate except slightly less defensible. Also note that snipers could still hit any defenders moving across the far end, so you're not completely eliminating that gameplay... just reducing it.

    [​IMG]

    Finally, you need an arrow here. Even though the spawn is aimed in the right direction, some people still felt the need to run out the wrong way. :)

    [​IMG]

    As always, if my ideas suck, disregard them. I do think that first section needs something more to make it more interesting, but I kind of struggled with ideas for it.
     
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  4. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    They don't suck at all, I was really at a loss for where to put an arrow just outside that spawn, I knew it was too confusing about which way to go but I couldn't find a good spot for an arrow, you found it amazingly easily....#

    I like your suggestions about that first room, its way too large and the stuff outside should work too. I desperatly need to find a way to get the cart to stall more between point 2 and 3 (the long stretch at the back), so far it just doesn't feel like it gets any reasonable contestance.
     
  5. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    My opinion is that this is related to the forward spawns. The attackers get one after the second checkpoint and then move up again after the third, correct? (sorry if this is wrong... my memory fails me). I'd suggest this...

    Map start:
    BLU at initial spawn, low respawn timer (instant)
    RED at most forward spawn, low respawn timer (6 seconds?)

    Checkpoint 1:
    BLU added time
    RED at final spawn

    Checkpoint 2:
    BLU added time

    Checkpoint 3:
    BLU forward spawn
    RED lengthen respawn timer (15 seconds?)

    Since RED would have very fast respawns, they'd be able to quickly recover from losing checkpoint 1 and could rebuild somewhere around checkpoint 3 with the non-engineers fighting the attackers between 2 and 3. Since BLU would have to travel so far, it places importance on BLU engineers and would make the push for checkpoint 3 very important. It's very similar to Badwater, except instead of a shortcut you'd be using respawn timers.

    Adding metal between 2 and 3 would also help, since it would allow RED engineers to build faster. It won't affect BLU, since they already have the cart.
     
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  6. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    The comments about long walking times are quite frequent, if I remove forward spawns like you're suggesting players will go nuts. I'd rather have fewer forward spawns and just do it with timers for the most part but I tried it out, it just doesn't work :(
     
  7. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    Perhaps for checkpoint 2 you could also make a shortcut between these two locations? The longest distance a team would have to run is to checkpoint 2 from the BLU spawn. Also, since BLU comes out between 2 and 3, it'd force a decent amount of action in that area. These two areas are currently empty in between and line up, so it should be pretty easy.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Another idea that might help that area is to add some additional ways for RED to defend it. I think right now RED is more likely to just set up around the corner where they're protected. If you give them a better chance to attack that area, they might do so more. Here's a stairway leading to a doorway that overlooks that area.

    [​IMG]

    It would lead to a bridge or balcony out in that area like this. If you can get it any higher, it'd be even better.

    [​IMG]

    Finally, with my theme of wanting more height in the map, you could use that bridge to allow people onto the roof of this structure. Adding some additional parts of the building set back from the ledge would allow it to be used without totally screwing up your skybox ideas. This would definitely require more playtesting since it could be overpowered, but allowing limited access from the other side would minimize that. Also, there are a decent amount of places/directions for the attackers to come from, so I'm not sure it'd be too bad.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    [​IMG]
    New building at the last CP, no idea how this will impact on gameplay, if it totally breaks everything going back to the old way will take 3 minutes tops.


    [​IMG]
    The interior of the new building, stairs up to the balcony.
    Hopefully the control of this building should aid the team that owns it significantly.



    [​IMG]

    A glimpse into the new skybox, there are lots of cliffs at every angle making the distance actually interesting now. I think I've upped the colour a little for the light_environment as well. Just after taking these screenshots I went and changed the rocks' skin to a lighter one, looks much better


    [​IMG]
    Reworked area to the side of cp 1, hopefully should give Blu a bit more of a flanking advantage and take away the flanking advantage from Red once Blu have capped.


    [​IMG]
    The reworked section from the other angle, the section with the stairs had been significantly narrowed.


    On top of these things I've also added in that sign where chilly said, I've done generic detailing work over the whole map as well, although in small amounts so far.
     
  9. HojoTheGreat

    HojoTheGreat L5: Dapper Member

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    Don't forget to place patch overlays underneath important ammo/medkit pickups. Obviously not necessary, but in busy areas it's helpful for players to know something is respawning somewhere.
     
  10. PMAvers

    PMAvers L6: Sharp Member

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    Something I noticed was that I was able to sticky-jump up into the "loft" in the half-constructed building outside of the offense's spawn. Dunno if that was intended or not. (Guessing no.)
     
  11. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Into - no. onto - yes.
    I've realised that it wasn't properly clipped off but now it is so you can stand on the top but not get inside.
     
  12. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    The wood/ground transition 'step' here is too wide/angled/high or something and I had difficulty walking across it as a soldier. I was also going to comment that the top of that building at the start was difficult to walk on, but it seems that may have been fixed with the clipping you mention.

    The dark side areas near the first point seemed way too long/clear LoS to try to make any sort of a defense in them. (and they are too dark)
     
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  13. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    All the points you've raised have been dealt with. I think its a tiny bit lighter but I'm still not happy with the brightness of that big room...

    /goes back to make it brighter
     
  14. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    New wall detailing:
    [​IMG]
    From behind:
    [​IMG]

    I'm not entirely happy with it but I still don't know what to do with it :(
     
  15. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    You could either add some sewer like exits as i drew or include "prop-ish" like rooms. I don't think they'll look too good together but you can see for yourself i guess.

    You don't necasserily have to cut access to those prop-ish rooms either, they'll provide a good ambush position for soldiers and demo's.

    [​IMG]

    edit: image code doesn't seem to have worked..

    edit2: ok should work now..

    edit3: Or now..
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  16. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Beta 2 is now available. Download links - http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=803 and http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/72535

    I took some new screenshots for this version and reduced the size of the watermark that people had such an objection to.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Changelog for those interested:
    Beta 2 released 13/12/08:-

    * Revised layout in a few places.
    * Slightly adjusted respawn timers for Red team.
    * Added and moved a few ammo packs.
    * Many detailing improvements over the entire map.
    * Added an extra dynamic sign to help direct new players in the right direction.
    * Fleshed out the 3D skybox.
    * Added observer points for each capture point.
    * Improved playerclipping.
    * Hopefully fixed an issue with spawn doors trapping players.
    * Fixed a problem where a door brush would prevent players moveing above it.
    * Properly aligned all displacement textures.

    Theres also an overhead shot of this version if anyone is interested byt that sort of stuff:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  17. flubber

    flubber L4: Comfortable Member

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    Nice overshot,i'll use it for the heatmap. do you have X/Y min/max, y'es i'm lazy those days :).
     
  18. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I don't know how the heatmap stuff works very well, where do you want the co-ords from? min/max of playable area or min/max of the entire map?
     
  19. flubber

    flubber L4: Comfortable Member

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    Well for the heatmap since the screenshot is showing th entire map i need those. Thx.
    By the way we're having a run on it tonight with other maps i wanted to test.

    Edit: The B1 have already an excellent reputation, i specially like the "Oh it's the same guy that make hoodoo, it must be good"
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  20. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Ok the co-ords are: 6168,4874 for max and -2702, -3964 for min.