PL Payload D-Day [Deleted]

[FishyUberMuffin]

Payload D-Day - This is a Payload version of CP D-Day. This map will be a Frontline map.

This is a Payload version of CP D-Day. This map will be a Frontline map.

 

[Viemärirotta]

There's no tracks to depict where the cart goes. You could even do that with brushes.

 

[AsG_Alligator]

TF2Maps has a steam group here http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2Mappers

Join the group chat and ask about anything that you want to know.

We also got servers for maptesting and you can queue your map up for tests and to gather feedback in the group chat too.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

There's no tracks to depict where the cart goes. You could even do that with brushes.

I am planning to place tracks down but they are always a hassle. The map will have tracks in the next update. I just wanted to push out the map so i have somewhere to start.

 

[Muddy]

It's pretty important to have even basic tracks laid out, so RED team knows where to set up their defences.

You don't even need to have the tracks all connect perfectly, you can get away with having some disconnected tracks copy-pasted along the cart path, or just use brushes - all that matters is that everybody knows where the cart is gonna go

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

It's pretty important to have even basic tracks laid out, so RED team knows where to set up their defences.

You don't even need to have the tracks all connect perfectly, you can get away with having some disconnected tracks copy-pasted along the cart path, or just use brushes - all that matters is that everybody knows where the cart is gonna go

Okay, I thought you must have it be perfect or not at all.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

- Added new payload tracks to help player see where the payload will go
- Added a blimp
- Added a landing strip and plane
- Added a helicopter and a landing pad
- Added railing to second control point
- Added new wall from back bunker to cut on the massive site line
- Added toll to the train rails
- Added lockers to red spawn
- Added new lights and guns next to the bunkers
- Added wood to the rails
- Added new signs around the map
- Added speakers to the map
- Updated the payload root
- Updated bunker texture
- Updated the blue spawn to fix the doors clipping
- Updated second point to not be clip into the door
- Fixed mines not being on the map
- Fixed bunker texture clipping

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[AsG_Alligator]

So, i loaded up your map and here are the issues:

No idea why those bunkers are missing textures (from the screenshots they appear to be metal bunker walls from frontline, and they are the only texture not working here.
But thats not the main issue. First area is HUGE and has zero cover, meanwhile red has all the cover,including bunkers to snipe every single living thing from.

This slope is really steep.

These traintracks look really weird, also train crossing sound is completely glitched out and is playing super fast.

There is an invisible wall here with nothing to mark this is the end of playable space.

This sightline is so long that far-z clipping plane starts chopping away its far end when you stand at either end. The same goes for the path on the opposite side of the map.

This is another very long sightline.

This area inside of the building(?) is a completely confusing maze. Confusing players is bad.

The cart goes through this gap? Are you sure it can even fit through there? Cart can push people into the wall if it goes really close to one.

Again, another large area with no cover and invisible map boundaries.

Look at official maps for reference on area sizes, sightline lengths and how layouts are designed to funnel people towards the objective.

I know that you think that D-Day beach assault is cool but it definitely wont be in TF2. Running out of spawn into a flat area with zero cover with 10 snipers shooting at you is the antithesis of fun.

I tell you: come to TF2Maps group chat, queue your map into the bot, talk with people there, and get it tested for feedback after you fix these issues.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

So, i loaded up your map and here are the issues:

No idea why those bunkers are missing textures (from the screenshots they appear to be metal bunker walls from frontline, and they are the only texture not working here.
But thats not the main issue. First area is HUGE and has zero cover, meanwhile red has all the cover,including bunkers to snipe every single living thing from.

This slope is really steep.

These traintracks look really weird, also train crossing sound is completely glitched out and is playing super fast.

There is an invisible wall here with nothing to mark this is the end of playable space.

This sightline is so long that far-z clipping plane starts chopping away its far end when you stand at either end. The same goes for the path on the opposite side of the map.

This is another very long sightline.

This area inside of the building(?) is a completely confusing maze. Confusing players is bad.

The cart goes through this gap? Are you sure it can even fit through there? Cart can push people into the wall if it goes really close to one.

Again, another large area with no cover and invisible map boundaries.

Look at official maps for reference on area sizes, sightline lengths and how layouts are designed to funnel people towards the objective.

I know that you think that D-Day beach assault is cool but it definitely wont be in TF2. Running out of spawn into a flat area with zero cover with 10 snipers shooting at you is the antithesis of fun.

I tell you: come to TF2Maps group chat, queue your map into the bot, talk with people there, and get it tested for feedback after you fix these issues.

First thanks for giving me feedback. I do appreciate it a lot.

- The first area is meant to be open because that is how the beaches were. Open and very little cover.
- The missing textures I have no idea why that is happening. It does not show up on my computer at all.
- The steep sloop I had to make it sleep to make sure second control point does not clip into the door but I can fix the issue.
- The train tracks are clipping because I wanted to make sure the tracks are the right size so I had to clip it. For the sound issues, i will remove it until I can fix it.
- The invisible wall with nothing making it as a stop for playable space is that I forgot to put something there.
- The two sight lines from the airstrip and the blimp are meant to be long but I don't know how to fix the props coming in and out of sight.
- The sight lines for second control point is not that bad because nobody is really going to be crossing their and if players do cross it will be only short time. Also, the train goes through there so it has to be a nice clean way for the train.
- The inside of the building is meant to have walls so it not empty and have heavy sight lines.
- The cart can go through the gap. I have tested it many times and it can go through there.
- The red spawn area is empty becuase i a not good with the decerating so i left it blank for now.

Thanks again for the feedback

 

[killohurtz]

I don't want to sound like I'm pushing you, but the open areas and long sightlines are a bigger problem than you think they are. You have to consider the game you're mapping for and how combat usually plays out. Every class in the game except sniper loses effectiveness at range (by damage falloff, bullet spread, etc), meaning that most encounters with other players should be resolved at short to medium range. When you have these huge open beach areas, you're giving snipers an overwhelming advantage over everybody else. Not to mention that the engine literally isn't designed for huge spaces, so you'll likely suffer from optimization problems as well.

Basically, when you're designing a layout, sometimes you'll have to throw away ideas you're attached to because they don't work out, whether it's due to a technical limitation or just incompatibility with the gameplay of TF2. If you really want to keep your beach theme, perhaps you could downscale the size of the beach area, adding some hills or rocky ledges for height variation and a little concrete bunker or two for cover.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

I don't want to sound like I'm pushing you, but the open areas and long sightlines are a bigger problem than you think they are. You have to consider the game you're mapping for and how combat usually plays out. Every class in the game except sniper loses effectiveness at range (by damage falloff, bullet spread, etc), meaning that most encounters with other players should be resolved at short to medium range. When you have these huge open beach areas, you're giving snipers an overwhelming advantage over everybody else. Not to mention that the engine literally isn't designed for huge spaces, so you'll likely suffer from optimization problems as well.

Basically, when you're designing a layout, sometimes you'll have to throw away ideas you're attached to because they don't work out, whether it's due to a technical limitation or just incompatibility with the gameplay of TF2. If you really want to keep your beach theme, perhaps you could downscale the size of the beach area, adding some hills or rocky ledges for height variation and a little concrete bunker or two for cover.

Okay

 

[Micnax]

Basically: Design the map around TF2's gameplay, instead of designing TF2's gameplay around the map.

Crash's map did an interpretation of a beach landing in his map Shoreleave which fits will to TF2's gameplay and still gets the concept across.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

- Added tanks to the front of the map
- Added new lights
- Added new mines to the front
- Added new sinking boats to the blue spawn
- Added new exit for red spawn
- Added new lockers to the red spawn
- Added wood fence to cut down on the sight lines
- Added piles of bricks to give height to the map
- Updated the entire map to be shorter to cut down on the site lines
- Updated the bunker textures to be a wood texture

Read the rest of this update entry...