goldrush = failure?

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by TheDarkerSideofYourShadow, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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  2. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Might be the nature of the gametype- there are three rounds to win, so blu's chance of winning the whole map is kind of diminished.
     
  3. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Dustbowl has three rounds too. Goldrush just has some really difficult choke points.
     
  4. FaTony

    FaTony Banned

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    Oh well... It was very easy to win as blue when the update came out...
     
  5. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    On the flip side, I hate the point1-point2 zone in the last stage. I find it near impossible to defend that second point, because when blu finally caps the first, red has to run further to reach the second point than blu has to go to get there from the first. :(
     
  6. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I think you'll find that it should be about 80-20 the other way for it to be balanced perfectly. Goldrush is really heavily weighted towards defence and yet nobody really notices all that much (well, I do, I complain every single game because I never ever see the explosion, I've seen it about 6 or 7 times total :()
     
  7. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    There are TONS of 24/7 instant spawn goldrush servers out there. I wouldn't be surprised if that manifested itself in these stats. Instant spawning defence = not win.

    I'd say on instant spawn servers it's about 80/20, but on regular servers it's the 40/60, as in the attackers normally win. Unless a decent defence goes up between points 2 and 3 on the final stage.
     
  8. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Well, Hoodoo and cranetop in that respect, at least let people see the end ^^

    But clearly organized RED team should not loose the start of second and third round in goldrush. Still people seems to love being consistently fragged over and over (maybe because they will get the chance to do it when defending)
     
  9. Cat™

    Cat™ L1: Registered

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    I usually play a goldrush everyday, usually as blue, it's not so enjoyable as red because nothing is more satisfying than capping final point stage 3, seeing yourself at the top of the scoreboard and going YEAH, I'M THE BEST. But it is really damn hard sometimes and I definitely lose as blue more than I win.
     
  10. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    More like

    Gold Rush = In need of some balancing

    It is indeed a bit too hard for BLU. That said, it doesn't matter to me whether they do anything with it or not, since I find it very enjoyable anyway.
     
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  11. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    Goldrush pwnnnnsss I love it, and Dustbowl too
     
  12. Psyphil

    Psyphil L3: Member

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    Even if it got some chokepoints it's a really good an fun map, absolutely not a failure

    I would never have guessed 20-80, more like 40-60 but anyway it only makes it even more fun to succeed as blue and if you don't succeed you have your revenge as red :p
     
  13. Hawk

    Hawk L7: Fancy Member

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    I think this is the biggest part of the problem. Instant-spawn servers are kind of ruining things. They cater to impatient people who don't realize that the respawn time is an important part of the gameplay. Instant respawn destroys the balance of most good maps.

    Every time I get into TF2 I have to carefully search for a server that has a low ping AND hasn't messed with the respawn time. This isn't always easy if there's a specific map I want to play.

    Other than respawn time, there definitely are slight choke-point problems. You can even see it on Goldrush's death map. But overall it's still one of my favorites, and quite possible to win as Blue if your team is good enough. I think the odds are better stacked in Red's favor.

    Goldrush is not failure.
     
  14. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    As far as goldrush just getting played more, well, it is the 2nd most popular map, behind dustbowl, and that still manages to maintain something more like 40/45 - 60/55. There are plenty of 24/7 dustbowl servers, instant spawns, and so on that make would do the same thing to that map. Yet it is far closer to balanced than goldrush.

    Also, look at the deathmap.
    [​IMG]

    That area that receives the most kills is the spot shortly after point 1 in round 1. It is not something that is particularly close to a point, such as 2nd point 2nd round, which would make instant respawns a big deal.

    I would have hoped that, if this was a better map, the heatmap would reflect an increasing number of deaths as the map goes along, indicating that it becomes harder and harder for blu to continue (ie, the map gets harder).
     
  15. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    The problem with the heatmap for goldrush is it doesn't take the seperate stages into account. Now, depending on what you want out of the heatmap, it might be ok, but for looking at the overall areas of difficulty it's useless because the amount of rounds that make it to the third stage is disproportionate to ones that end on the first stage. Because of that you end up with pretty much solid blue for the whole last stage. It is, however, useful for indicating the fact that red wins too because of that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
  16. Hawk

    Hawk L7: Fancy Member

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    Yeah, that's precisely what the deathmap tells. If you look at Dustbowl, you'll see that Blue more commonly makes it to the third round than they would in Goldrush. And it's because of that nasty chokepoint before Goldrush's second control point.

    I wish they would show us Badwater Basin's death map.
     
  17. Inqwel

    Inqwel L6: Sharp Member

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    Most often complaint I hear about payload maps in general is that the defending demo man has the advantage because the players know that this mobile device has a fixed path that's predictable. I, however, don't see the difference really between that and defending in Dustbowl tbh.
     
  18. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    By that theory, engies and pyros and heavies and spies and... well, everyone has an advantage when they know where the enemy is.
     
  19. zaratustra

    zaratustra L2: Junior Member

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    Goldrush suffers from the same problem Badwater and Dustbowl do, in that it's a easy run to the first point(s), then a ten-minute protracted fight over the endpoint.

    Personally I think the best point for BLU to turn things around is the end of round 2, where three engineers can really put the hurt at the last ten yards.
     
  20. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

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    I think Goldrush leans heavily to the defense on the first stage. They tried to fix it by closing off that ledge, but the problem remains

    It's basically a shooting gallery for Red once Blu caps the first point. Sentries keep attackers at bay (except in the rare case of ubers on pubs), and the snipers finish them off

    The second stage, second cap also presents some problems with sentry farming. You have 3 difficult to attack sentry positions, and one uber rarely can clear them all out