KotH Forklift b4

[seth]

I didn't say randomly add them. But there's no reason not to in areas where you know everything will always be seen at once. Take the 3 visclusters in middle as an example. Every point anywhere inside the viscluster in the Blu or Red yard can be seen by any other point inside the same viscluster. You can tell just by walking around in the map and checking against your overview where you should put them. As long as you've imagined yourself in each corner of the viscluster and confirmed that it can see the other corner, you'll be saving loads of compiling time and not hurting performance at all.

EDIT: Tyler, I think you're confused about what visclusters actually do. It's an internal entity, so it's discarded when compiling is finished. It just tells vvis that all the leaves inside its volume can see each other, but the leaves inside the volume are not destroyed or merged. So in-game, all the leaves are still the same.

 

[tyler]

Right, but if you're standing in one viscluster and look at another, you're then rendering two entire clusters. In the screenshot you posted with suggested viscluster placement, it seems trivial to stand in one of the yards and render all of mid. I could even see standing near spawn and rendering an entire yard and mid at once. That is not what you want.

It's one thing to make everything in one cluster visible. That reduces visibility calculations by the client, which is good. But it means if you look through a door at that area, you render everything you shouldn't be rendering, because you told the compiler that's fine. It probably is not fine.

Edit: Looking at the puush shots you added of his vlsleafs, I would say a better thing to do would be to learn what does and doesn't need to be func_detail or where hint brushes should be added.

 

[seth]

That's not how they work. See my edit above.

 

[tyler]

EDIT: Tyler, I think you're confused about what visclusters actually do. It's an internal entity, so it's discarded when compiling is finished. It just tells vvis that all the leaves inside its volume can see each other, but the leaves inside the volume are not destroyed or merged. So in-game, all the leaves are still the same.

No, I get that. I don't mean they are merging. I'm not sure I can explain, but typically the engine calculates what leaves a player may look at and renders them slightly ahead of time, so if the player rounds a corner there's no pop in. When you add a viscluster, instead of rendering just 1 or 2 leaves around a corner, it renders the whole area, because the engine thinks that whole area is viewable when any part of it is viewable. The fact that leaves aren't merged is irrelevant.

Unless they fixed it?

 

[seth]

I just booted up TF2C with my func_visclustered dm_lumberyard to check. When I look at func_visclustered areas they are not all rendered. It's still dynamically calculated by the visleafs and areaportals. I guess they did fix it if that's how it worked before.

EDIT: checked with r_lockpvs and it seems you are actually right. Thanks for setting me straight on that. My computer usually lets me sit at 300 FPS in any map so I wouldn't have noticed a difference anyway.

 

[tyler]

I don't know what TF2C is (besides that it's a mod or something) and that might be a part of it. I will investigate later myself to confirm. When I was trying to optimize Anthem, it definitely did not function that way.

Edit: Told you! Good, that means no homework.

 

[seth]

I thought you had to be inside the func_viscluster volume for it to take effect, not that you could simply look at it from anywhere and it would render everything inside the volume. I thought since visleafs were conserved it would be smart enough not to do that. Had me confused. Thanks for not letting me screw up Grizzly's map.

 

[tyler]

I'm the Batman of TF2M

 

[seth]

But seriously isn't the way I described how they should actually work? Why don't they just use the visleafs they left and calculate what you can and cannot see as normal when you're not inside the volume? Seems odd they do it this way.

 

[tyler]

Yeah, they probably should work how you described. I've long assumed their current behavior is a bug, but Valve rarely uses it themselves so maybe it's just intended to have such limited use.

 

[Vincent]

If I remember correctly there's a viscluster around the log on lumberyard, the one over the deathpit with the small health. I think Freyja used one once. From what I noticed their niche is high up and open area's.

 

[Grizzly Berry]

First update since the TF2Maps.net overhaul. Pretty small update, but should change how mid plays.

• Started detailing spawn rooms
• Replaced windows at mid with battlements

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[ades]

i looked around I love the layout it looks great my only complaint is that i found a couple clipping issues on the edge of a roof at mid (both sides) sorry I dont have a picture but hopfully you can find what im talking about

 

[Grizzly Berry]

Just posting to inform everyone I've decided on the name koth_forklift and I will be going with a construction theme. I had started on detailing, but ran into some computer issues and will be starting over from scratch. No more theme changes. This one is set in stone.

 

[Lain]

Famous last words
Glad to see you're still working on this, I really like it just running around.

 

[Grizzly Berry]

Lost the map when I reset my computer, so I took the opportunity to clean up brushwork and work a bit on the theme.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[TBotV63]

Good to see progress on this
Just from running around on it it looks fun to play on.

EDIT: If you rocket jump high enough you can look through the map.

 

[Grizzly Berry]

• Lowered point and shacks around mid
• Widened point
  
• Added window to right route
• Began detailing

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Grizzly Berry]

Made some small changes:

- Rotated bridge and shacks at mid 15 degrees counterclockwise
- Added small doorway connecting side route to mid
- Added doorway entrance to lower room
- Removed detailing
- Removed sacks on pallets

Not super happy with the area between spawns and mid, so a large rework may be coming. We'll see.

 

[Grizzly Berry]

a28 changes:

- Reworked area between spawn and mid

Wasn't happy with it at all. Hopefully what I've done will be better. Only time will tell.

Also, 6 years on TF2Maps tomorrow. <3 Seems like it's about time I finish a map.