- Thread starter Asd417
- Start date
a19
C has new color scheme
Adjusted Lighting
Changed windows at D to fences
A-B connector is now closed until A is capped.
B highground entrance moved closer to blue spawn
Read the rest of this update entry...
C has new color scheme
Adjusted Lighting
Changed windows at D to fences
A-B connector is now closed until A is capped.
B highground entrance moved closer to blue spawn
Read the rest of this update entry...
Widened B-C connector doorway. I already have a feeling that I will have to rebuild this but we'll try anyways
Removed one of the C point Red exits. Increased height of the spawn door by 64.
Read the rest of this update entry...
Removed one of the C point Red exits. Increased height of the spawn door by 64.
Read the rest of this update entry...
Lowered A by 128 units
Modified geometry to match the new height
A new path open to red for rotating to D outside red spawn before A is capped. This path is one-way
Clipped off circle lamp on C
Capping A now moves the D point upward not downward, meaning that D point starts lower
Read the rest of this update entry...
Modified geometry to match the new height
A new path open to red for rotating to D outside red spawn before A is capped. This path is one-way
Clipped off circle lamp on C
Capping A now moves the D point upward not downward, meaning that D point starts lower
Read the rest of this update entry...
Added spawndoor for red at D
Fixed Staircase not opening after C capture
Added an escape route from the point before B capture. It closes after B.
Added lights on C
Fixed missing C gate before B capture
Read the rest of this update entry...
Fixed Staircase not opening after C capture
Added an escape route from the point before B capture. It closes after B.
Added lights on C
Fixed missing C gate before B capture
Read the rest of this update entry...
Added a highground path for blue at B. Previous alternate path was removed due to blue taking over B way too quickly.
Made large part of blue spawn as non-spawnroom, allowing engineers to build.
D platform now moves up after B capture instead of A capture. Bridge still extend on B capture
Removed A-D path for red due to it leading players to take the longer route.
Made blue spawn higher by 64 units.
Read the rest of this update entry...
Made large part of blue spawn as non-spawnroom, allowing engineers to build.
D platform now moves up after B capture instead of A capture. Bridge still extend on B capture
Removed A-D path for red due to it leading players to take the longer route.
Made blue spawn higher by 64 units.
Read the rest of this update entry...
Fixed not being able to place buildings in blue spawn
Reworked Red spawn
Relocated C
Read the rest of this update entry...
Reworked Red spawn
Relocated C
Read the rest of this update entry...
I am not sure what your "take" on the Steel gamemode is exactly, but I think it would be worth defining so that you can better figure out what you're trying to do with the map. Is it like more modern takes (Outflow for example) where the final point only really becomes a viable capture once all the other points are capped? Or is it like Steel / Reactor where the final second to last point is about as equally capturable as final?
From there, I think you should try and design each point to play as an isolated / compartmentalized piece, and think of each as its own A/D point. Steel manages this by making A and B points that are equidistant from both red and blue spawn, and C being a straight push from B with red spawn jumping back to compensate for blue's walk distance.
I think you've got a dynamic that works for A and B, but the walk distances don't quite work for C or D. In addition, if blue team decides to ignore A and push B / D at the start, they can gain way too much ground. Steel blocks C off entirely for blue team until B is capped, and there is little ground for them to "infest" on the way to E.
I think your map also just suffers from meta, because it seems to be a guarantee in tests that blue WILL try to set up a nest for attacking D. D has proven itself semi-viable to storm since the red rotation times are so long, so it bleeds more blue players from the A offense, and really just stifles the dynamic of the whole map. On Steel, players don't really seem to try this much because A is a fairly difficult push and because E simply does not feel viable as anything but a distraction.
In conclusion: I think you need to restructure/rescale the map in a way that reduces walk times in general across pretty much the entire map. Both teams need to be able to rotate between their options quicker, and the final push to D once all points are capped is simply oversized and does not work. I think you may need to design A and B in a way that is scaled more akin to Steel in order to do this, as they are the main rotation "branches" once the map has moved onto attacking C and D, and therefore extend all walk times. (Alternatively, give blue a forward spawn?)
From there, I think you should try and design each point to play as an isolated / compartmentalized piece, and think of each as its own A/D point. Steel manages this by making A and B points that are equidistant from both red and blue spawn, and C being a straight push from B with red spawn jumping back to compensate for blue's walk distance.
I think you've got a dynamic that works for A and B, but the walk distances don't quite work for C or D. In addition, if blue team decides to ignore A and push B / D at the start, they can gain way too much ground. Steel blocks C off entirely for blue team until B is capped, and there is little ground for them to "infest" on the way to E.
I think your map also just suffers from meta, because it seems to be a guarantee in tests that blue WILL try to set up a nest for attacking D. D has proven itself semi-viable to storm since the red rotation times are so long, so it bleeds more blue players from the A offense, and really just stifles the dynamic of the whole map. On Steel, players don't really seem to try this much because A is a fairly difficult push and because E simply does not feel viable as anything but a distraction.
In conclusion: I think you need to restructure/rescale the map in a way that reduces walk times in general across pretty much the entire map. Both teams need to be able to rotate between their options quicker, and the final push to D once all points are capped is simply oversized and does not work. I think you may need to design A and B in a way that is scaled more akin to Steel in order to do this, as they are the main rotation "branches" once the map has moved onto attacking C and D, and therefore extend all walk times. (Alternatively, give blue a forward spawn?)
Copying Discord message to here so I dont forget/lose them.
Idolon:
basically i think the map is too big
Idolon:
at a layout level i think its getting there, but i think the travel times are whats killing it
asd417:
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Idolon:
i think you may need to compress the overall vertical space of the map a bit so that you dont need as much space for stairs? and i would either shorten up A and B as a whole, or somehow shorten the walk time for blue to D (once A and B are capped)(수정됨)
asd417:
that seems a lot more achievable than sizing the entire map down
Idolon:
like, A and B and maybe C seem to function decently, but once they're all capped, the fight for D is an absolute slog because it covers so much ground
Idolon:
needs to be focused more so that blue has options to rotate and doesn't spend most of the game just walking
asd417:
yeah I havent thought about which kind of steel I want to do so far. it's a good suggestion and that will help
Idolon:
i think yours is better oriented towards the outflow model, where final is only really viable once all the previous points are capped, but final acts as a distraction play
Idolon:
C is just not in a good spot to be an optional objective
asd417:
C?
Idolon:
good news is that this model lends itself better to a blue fwd spawn. outflow has one
Idolon:
yeah, C
asd417:
so it's mandatory or is it too hard to cap for blue
Idolon:
maybe i need to take a closer look, but my understanding of steel is that D is fairly easy for red to clear. once D is open, E is really the main focus and D is the distraction play
Idolon:
i dont think your C functions like a distraction play kind of point, but maybe im wrong
asd417:
I should check the demo but I dont have high hope since it was found that red's C spawndoor locks after B cap in current verison somehow
Idolon:
lol yeah
asd417:
most likely a retest
Idolon:
the other thing is that i think having the typical map order be A B D might feel anticlimactic somehow
asd417:
maybe
asd417:
having blue forward spawn is pretty interesting idea
asd417:
I honestly dont know what to think about for A B D order if it's an issue
Idolon:
basically i think the map is too big
Idolon:
at a layout level i think its getting there, but i think the travel times are whats killing it
asd417:
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Idolon:
i think you may need to compress the overall vertical space of the map a bit so that you dont need as much space for stairs? and i would either shorten up A and B as a whole, or somehow shorten the walk time for blue to D (once A and B are capped)(수정됨)
asd417:
that seems a lot more achievable than sizing the entire map down
Idolon:
like, A and B and maybe C seem to function decently, but once they're all capped, the fight for D is an absolute slog because it covers so much ground
Idolon:
needs to be focused more so that blue has options to rotate and doesn't spend most of the game just walking
asd417:
yeah I havent thought about which kind of steel I want to do so far. it's a good suggestion and that will help
Idolon:
i think yours is better oriented towards the outflow model, where final is only really viable once all the previous points are capped, but final acts as a distraction play
Idolon:
C is just not in a good spot to be an optional objective
asd417:
C?
Idolon:
good news is that this model lends itself better to a blue fwd spawn. outflow has one
Idolon:
yeah, C
asd417:
so it's mandatory or is it too hard to cap for blue
Idolon:
maybe i need to take a closer look, but my understanding of steel is that D is fairly easy for red to clear. once D is open, E is really the main focus and D is the distraction play
Idolon:
i dont think your C functions like a distraction play kind of point, but maybe im wrong
asd417:
I should check the demo but I dont have high hope since it was found that red's C spawndoor locks after B cap in current verison somehow
Idolon:
lol yeah
asd417:
most likely a retest
Idolon:
the other thing is that i think having the typical map order be A B D might feel anticlimactic somehow
asd417:
maybe
asd417:
having blue forward spawn is pretty interesting idea
asd417:
I honestly dont know what to think about for A B D order if it's an issue
Fixed red spawn exit for C not opening
Fixed overlays not assigned to surfaces
Fixes-only version. Need retest
Read the rest of this update entry...
Fixed overlays not assigned to surfaces
Fixes-only version. Need retest
Read the rest of this update entry...
a30
Fixed map
Added textures for area recognition
Added a window at D to let red observe blue team pushing into C
Read the rest of this update entry...
Fixed map
Added textures for area recognition
Added a window at D to let red observe blue team pushing into C
Read the rest of this update entry...
Added Forward spawn for Blue after Capping C
Changed the geometry around A-D connector and B-C connector for better blue rotation
New red spawn for D
Red players in spawn are teleported to the new spawn after B capture and C capture
Read the rest of this update entry...
Changed the geometry around A-D connector and B-C connector for better blue rotation
New red spawn for D
Red players in spawn are teleported to the new spawn after B capture and C capture
Read the rest of this update entry...
Fixed displacement seam
Fixed blue team being able to get teleported when red spawn moves from C to D
Read the rest of this update entry...
Fixed blue team being able to get teleported when red spawn moves from C to D
Read the rest of this update entry...
Red spawnroom expanded. Dropdown from A exit to D exit. 14 seconds rotation.
Read the rest of this update entry...
Read the rest of this update entry...
Added a sign inside red spawn leading to B
Red spawn teleport triggers make a bit more sense and covers more area
Fixed some visible nodraws
Read the rest of this update entry...
Red spawn teleport triggers make a bit more sense and covers more area
Fixed some visible nodraws
Read the rest of this update entry...
Added custom handrails to the final point that comes with 4 skins. Might release soon. lmk
Added glass to one of the windows. Only half, just enough to block stupid sightline from blue's entrance to red spawn.
Red can now use the B spawn exit from the start of the game. Experimental change.
Read the rest of this update entry...
Added glass to one of the windows. Only half, just enough to block stupid sightline from blue's entrance to red spawn.
Red can now use the B spawn exit from the start of the game. Experimental change.
Read the rest of this update entry...