Demoman needs a nerf ;)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by YM, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DxckVFQ9Vw&fmt=22"]Some ownage (click me for the larger version)[/ame]

    uploaded 4 days ago and only had 292 views so I thought I'd post it here.
     
  2. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Yeah that video's fantastic.

    I'd like to say though, it's actually easier to hit things with grenades than rockets...

    If any class needs a nerf, it's something to stop the pyro running in randomly flaming, such as decreasing damage for the time he is not hitting a player or something like that.
     
  3. DaBeatzProject

    aa DaBeatzProject

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    Indeed, the editing is epic and the fraging as well :p But what is a 'nerf'?
     
  4. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The only thing that annoys me about the demoman is

    A) Being one shotted by grenades. Since when do grenades to 125+ damage?
    B) Someone good with angles that can plant a number of stickies on your defensive position from behind a building-half way across the map.

    His reload times are HUGE, and the only real way to tackle a demoman is get in close whilst he's off gaurd. Even if he's got a full clip chances are at such close quarter's you'll pull a draw out of it and watch him kill himself with his rounds that hit you.
     
  5. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    The first thing they need to do is un-nerf the Demoman. It's only his defensive role and ability to lay traps that has been weakened, while the problem of people spamming stickies as their primary weapon is still there in full force.

    I think the damage of stickies should be reduced. It's ridiculous that such a powerful and versatile weapon should be THE most damaging weapon in the game. I would seriously suggest a 50% reduction of power, even they made stickies indestructible again.
     
  6. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    the only reasonable nerf for demoman should be blinding his second eye too, most of the time i get killed by demos is when they blindly fire into somewhat direction to hit whatever might be around the corner
     
  7. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    D: only put the title to that as a joke, I didnt actually mean he needs a nerf or even a buff - he needs neither, people need to stop complaining.
     
  8. Zeewier

    Zeewier L9: Fashionable Member

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    I think the destructible stickies actually buffed the demo, because it forces you to place them at hard to spot places ;)
     
  9. AWESOME-O

    AWESOME-O L10: Glamorous Member

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    Fixed. You can thank me later =)

    What VALVe did was to make it almost impossible to learn the demoman.
    Sure, you can put stickies up and wait till someone passes and Kabloooweee.
    But, using them in fight, and using nades in fight, to really hit someone, and not just luck shoot someone, really hard to master.
    I guess almost noone here knew you can charge your stickies (and) nades?
    Not sure about nades, but i know if you hold in your shoot button for your stickie, you shoot it further.
    Also, last time i checked, when a frag grenade explodes in front of someone that guy mostly dies =)
     
  10. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    /\ this, the damage is far too variant, its its an unexplained variant as well, i took a look at the default cvars for the game and he does a base of 60 damage with a variant of something like 25, so when i see a non-crit pipe bomb do 150+ damage its always kinda irritating
     
  11. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Ah, I was a bit confused. I thought you were stating that he needs a nerf and using the video to prove it.

    About the video, then. I hate frag videos in general because they just show off regular single kills or a couple of kills in a row, edited together to look amazing. Congratulations, you can hit Scouts in midair with grenades! - But I don't want to watch you doing it for nine minutes. On the other hand, I've got to give the guy some credit for the editing, which is great. The music was cool too.
     
  12. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    As a guy who knows what he's talking about (I know every trick of the demo basically), the guy's main skill is that he's smooth. If I was that smooth, people could call my engi overpowered (not like it isn't :p). His double shooting is impressive.

    And the charge thing, wtf? Did you seriously ask if you knew you could charge it and hold the sticky?

    You can't with the nade by the way.

    Anyways, the guy does well with his ammo.
     
  13. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Last time I checked, shooting an RPG at your feet kills you. :p

    While I do think the demoman is stronger than he should be, I don't think the correct solution is a "nerf" per se, but rather a "correction" of his role.
    Rockets: 4 to a clip high damage explosives
    Grenades: 4 to a clip high damage explosives
    Given people of the same aiming skill, they fill the same niche. Rocket range is a negligible issue because of distance-damage falloff, plus the demo has stickies that can go long range without falloff. Further, stickies are considerably more powerful/useful than the shotgun, with the exception of short range where the stickies won't arm.


    As for the video, I'll sum it up with "meh"
    I've seen fancy editing before. The music was horrendously repetitive in nature. I'll watch videos with music I dislike but when it's the same notes and words over and over... *strangle*
    Also, videos like these always make it seem better than it is, since it's only the awesome stuff. How about an un-cut clip from a whole game, how many of these does he get compared to shots fired? :p
     
  14. Altaco

    Altaco L7: Fancy Member

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    Could be fixed simply by making the stickies have a 5ish second delay after they stick to something before you can set them off.
     
  15. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I thought i would throw in my opinion anyway despite your light hearted joke :p

    P.S. I didn't realise the adverts were related to thread title's! It's trying to sell me Nerf Vortex Balls off Ebay!
     
  16. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    That's pretty much the way GoogleAds work and why they became so popular. They are based off the content of the page that requests them.
     
  17. JohnnyB.Morbid

    JohnnyB.Morbid L1: Registered

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    Dispite what the aim of the thread is i want to whine about the demoman. As a pyro may main concern is scouts and heavies in tight spots. The demoman can kill me with one shot form the pipebomb. 175 health in one shot. :f*ckin rage: hows that possible? is the damage formula on that weapon like.

    50*rand#(1-5).
     
  18. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    I've been saying it for half a year now. Even after the latest updates, Demos remain ungodly overpowered. And Pyro is by far the weakest class. Airblast is a fun toy, not a weapon, and costs way too much ammo. The flare gun is used to annoy people, but doesn't significantly contribute. The versatility and range of both grenades means they need a serious damage reduction. Demos do not currently take full damage from their own weapons, which they should. It's actually gotten to the point where I just refuse to heal Demos. /flame suit on.
     
  19. AWESOME-O

    AWESOME-O L10: Glamorous Member

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    Yes demo's are overpowered.
    But, the learning curve for the demo is a lot higher than for the pyro.

    Well, i only noticed yesterday, while i have played tf2 for over a year now :p
     
  20. CJLJ

    CJLJ L1: Registered

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    There's only two problems i have with the demoman, grenade damage variance and crit stickies. According to tf2wiki.net a direct hit from a primary grenade has a variance of 64-132. Change it to 74-122 so it doesn't one shot scouts from full. Crit stickies are also a problem because they have such a large radius and they glow, allowing the demoman to pre-emptively place them unlike every other crit. Either reduce their crit damage or take the glow off.

    Apart from that i think they're a great class. They take a certain amount of skill to play well and there's a very high skill ceiling. You can lay traps if you want but to get the most out of it you have to actively use the stickies in combat which dissuades from overuse of traps which would detract from gameplay. I'd hate to require an uber to walk through every doorway. It has a higher potential than the pyro but it's also harder to play. Pretty much anyone can W+mouse1 and get some kills with the flamethrower so unless they fundamentally change the mechanics of the class it's fine the way it is.