CTF haters, why do you hate CTF??

[Ezekel]

i assumed it'd be something along the lines of turning of smart edit to parent, but wasn't sure if that'd be enough to get the brush to sit on the character's back correctly.

what would happen if you manually input a model field into the intel entity?

 

[YM]

I wish you could just change the model too.

New model with the same name/filepath + pakrat??

 

[TotalMark]

New model with the same name/filepath + pakrat??

I know you can do it that way silly, I meant in Hammer.

If the item_teamflag entity had an option for models.

 

[Zeewier]

Im pretty suer all entitys with a model have that option, but they just didnt add it as an option:

try this console command :

ent_info item_teamflag

 

[Kill_the_Bug]

The problem with CTF's is that the flag sits in one spot as do all the players guns etc.

I was working on a map - cubicle wars - that had intel starting in one spot - when capped the intel would move to a new location for pick up, then when capped again it would move yet again to a different spot.

By having the intel move around constantly, you'd have to move attacks, defenses all of the time. If you want to have a more real experience have 3 intel packs in play at once and then rotate the return points via switches to have the packs randomly appear all over the place with a screen notification as to where the pack has now gone.

 

[uma plata]

I've been thinking about this topic for a while, and actually am trying to address it with my first map. I'm using the opportunity to test out a different ctf layout, so if it's truly horrible, I can just scrap the whole thing without it hurting too bad.

Seems like the big complaint is the ability of Engineers to lock down the intel with little effort. The first idea I had to address this was of the intel spawning at random, in one of 3 possible locations, like this:

But being my first map and all, I figured just keep it simple, no messing around with entities.

So then I though, what if instead of 3 possible intel rooms, what about just 3 paths? The intel room itself would be nobuild, and accessible by any path:

But then I started thinking this might get a little complex and frustrating. So I'm taking this idea and simplifying it so each base is split into 2 paths, both leading to the intel. And there is also a central area with upper and lower floors. And you can move between paths in a couple areas. (I know, sounds even more complicated, right?). Anyway, this is what I'm going with, looks like this:

The intel room itself is not going to have a lot of buildable area, maybe none at all. And metal is going to be located in the center, not much towards spawn. Also, spawn will be above and behind the intel room. So defenders are not blocking it just by spawning and going out the door.

I have it blocked out for the most part, starting on some detail work. Hopefully in a week or two it'll be time for a WIP post and gameday submission!

Anyway, wondering what everyone thinks the obvious drawbacks of this layout might be?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

That's actually really similar to the layout of my current CTF map (also my first map, go me), right down to the "spawn room nowhere near path to intel" bit and multiple distinct paths. I haven't had an opportunity to do any playtesting, but I can't see any glaring theory problems with it. Haven't done any nobuild yet, though.

 

[Ezekel]

why not just slap the intel/cap zone onto a func train, that slowly orbits around a path in the base?

an engie can't sentry lock the intel room, since at any given moment the intel won't be there. (for that matter, depending the size and shape of the path the intel takes, it may be impossible to cover the intel at all times even with 4 engies)
course this also means engie as a class now has to be played more intelligently. using sentry to hold a teleport exit, or locking down one of multiple entrances to the base.

 

[Tinker]

You guys are forgetting that there needs to be a defense, too. One of the problems with... I think it was aerospace, was that there were too many routes, very open and the intelligence fairly unprotectable. You can all go and hate on engineers in CTF, but just having scouts rush back and forth and nothing else makes for rather boring games as well.

 

[Randdalf]

Why don't we just avoid CTF maps entirely and look to the future

 

[uma plata]

You guys are forgetting that there needs to be a defense, too. One of the problems with... I think it was aerospace, was that there were too many routes, very open and the intelligence fairly unprotectable. You can all go and hate on engineers in CTF, but just having scouts rush back and forth and nothing else makes for rather boring games as well.

Actually I look at Aerospace as one of the better CTF maps out there. And engies can be effective, they just need to work a little harder, pull out the shotgun every once in a while

I don't really want to make engineers useless, just discourage sentry stacking. Trying to break into an intel room with 3 lvl 3 sentries is about as fun as having scouts cap on you 3 times in a row

In my map the defenders spawn with significant height and visibility advantage, so defense is possible, it's just up to the players instead of the buildings.

 

[Kill_the_Bug]

I found aerospace real easy to engy camp from everything - set up dispenser/gun inside with intel, set up dispenser/gun at exit pointing to steps, set up dispenser/gun at steps pointing down, set up dispenser/gun at bottom, ad in 1 pyro for spies/compression blast = impregnable. The last gun in with the intel finishes off any uberchargers coming in as the other guns kill most of it.

However, I like Steel - the last point hard to guard with guns and maybe intel packages need to be the same - in the wide open - over a death pit.

 

[Nosher]

,,,working on a map currently that has a new slant on CTF......

.....more details to follow....

Nosh

BTW - I LOVE ctf!!!

 

[UKCS-Alias]

I like CTF when the flag is easy enough to take away/capture. Many ctf maps have the same problem as 2fort as you cant reach the flag and take it back on larger servers. 2 sentries are a huge problem when the flag is placed deep in the base. People only like 2fort because its a TFC map, its just like dust2... its fine when its played the way it should but too many players and it becomes one of the worst maps you can find.

Turbine to me is a very good CTF map simply because the flag is quite easy to take. It gives more quicker battles and ends much less in stalemates. I have played it on both 5 vs 5 normal respawn and 16 vs 16 instant respawn. The IR did take a bit longer per round but still. within 30 minutes you often have already a victory. For 2fort you usualy need 3 hours to get that.

The pace of the battle is important for a CTF map. If it takes to long to capture a flag then its just boring. Thats why a good intel room is a room where there are no good sentry spots that hold out long. Sentries couse stalemates when placed there as you cant avoid them without getting crossfire on you also.

 

[Mexican Apple Thief]

The main thing stopping mappers being more creative now is the extremely limiting entity set. I'd prepared some models to use in a tf2 map before the game was released. A beer barrel, a big stack of pizza boxes and an old gramaphone. They were to be used in place of 3 flags. The team that captured all the 'flags' would win the round and be teleported to a party room (barrel set up, pizza on the tables, gramaphone playing cheesy music) while any losers that were left alive would be weaponstripped and teleported to a cage in the party room.
I still love the idea of that map, but the stupid intel entity doesn't allow me to choose something other than the briefcase. If I only wanted to use a single custom model, then I could fake it, and pakrat a model into the map that would override the briefcase in everyone's gcf file. But that won't work with three different models. In tfc, it would have been as easy to do as falling over. You can choose any model you like for any prop type, even wrong ones. Hammer allows you to place prop_statics using models that can't even be used as such, and on the other hand it won't allow you to select ANY different model as the intel/flag/whatever. I'm no coder, but there's no way that giving mappers that choice would have been hard to implement. To me, it just smells like valve have withheld this so that no-one gets to trump their next 'exciting new gamemode' hype.
meh.

/rant

Pakrat an invisible skin for the briefcase and parent the props to them. I don't know if you can do that but it's worth a try.

 

[Schmoe]

After you destroy the entire team's worth of sentries and capture the flag you get to come back and do it all again. It doesn't really give the sense of accomplishment that moving up in a cp map does.

I agree with this.

 

[bittman]

Someone was making a CTF map where there are 3 different intels on each team, each with their own intel room and access routes.

This is how CTF should be, else just 1 point = round win.

I also wonder how asymmetrical CTF maps would fare? Teams swap at the rounds end to try the reverse.

 

[Artesia]

so is there any sort of eta on such a CTF contest? I'm not really interested in mapping in notepad. I have college classes, work and a baby to attend to on top of mapping, and try to make things easier not harder Although it was a 'unique' idea.

 

[Mar]

Engineers and CTF. Engineers are really the only one use class in the game. They build immovable objects. that's it. Anyone want to go into this further?

Well too bad

The engi should only be able to build sentries that are between a level 1 and 2, it insta builds, hitting it with your wrench doesn't make it build faster.

Same with dispensers and teleports, but they automatically start at level 3. The engi needs much less busy work and more flexibilty in the making of weapons. Right now it takes him 2 minutes to bring his buildings to a worthy status, only for a spy to sap that, or a demo to blow that up in 2 seconds. Engi needs to be way less singular in his roll.

 

[MangyCarface]

Maybe in certain meta-games, but as much as I personally hate engineers, they make or break attack defend maps in pubs. Level 3 teleport will do more to sway the battle than any other class' efforts: it essentially gets everyone to the frontline much much faster, affecting all your teammates in a way that even the medic can't do.

So while he might not be good for comp, having a knowledgeable blue engy on my team makes my life a lot easier.