Cp_BloodFall

CP Cp_BloodFall rc5

Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,349
5,524
You seem to have stolen quite a bit of work from official Halloween maps without crediting them.

Gorge event's deathpit:
2016-09-27_11-59-18.jpg
Your deathpit:
2016-09-27_11-40-05.jpg


Mann Manors red spawn:
2016-09-27_11-46-45.jpg

Your red spawn:
2016-09-27_11-45-19.jpg


Gorge event's upper last area:
2016-09-27_11-58-19.jpg

Your last area:
2016-09-27_11-56-08.jpg


Clocktowers from Sunshine event:
2016-09-27_12-03-39.jpg

Your towers:
2016-09-27_12-05-04.jpg


Hellstone's underworld:
A244D70449E8E187FEE2726FE6559453F68E5D9C

Your underworld:
CB1EDF47311930A9EE1FAE915723A83D0007FD5E


I'm sure I could find more, this was just off the top of my head as I flew around your map. Making minor changes to brushwork copied 1:1 is still plagiarism.

This is pretty not cool.
 
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Zed

Certified Most Crunk™
aa
Aug 7, 2014
1,241
1,025
@Crash you accidentally swapped the pictures of Gorge event and his map.
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
i gave now credit to the maps and also i am changing the red spawn the underworld and the clock tower so everything should be alright thanks for the help i really but really appreciate it!
and of course pointing out my mistakes
 

iiboharz

eternally tired
aa
Nov 5, 2014
858
1,292
i gave now credit to the maps and also i am changing the red spawn the underworld and the clock tower so everything should be alright thanks for the help i really but really appreciate it!
and of course pointing out my mistakes
Just because you credit the author of the content you've used does not make it okay. You really should remove all traces of stolen content within your map. Plagiarism does not fly in this community.
 

ics

http://ics-base.net
aa
Jun 17, 2010
841
543
I get it that you copied stuff from maps that are "official" and within the game but thats really not a good way to learn and publishing those as part of your own map isn't that good idea either. There is always someone who notices and you get bad reputation for it.

What you could have done with older maps is some sort of mix - connect older halloween maps or their iconic parts together somehow and build on that feature. Something that would have made sense and the map more unique than this but right now when cat is out of the bag, hiding this was a bad idea.

Learn from your mistakes and if you really are using parts from a map, then credit the author. But generally you need permission from the owner before you do edit their maps (atleast its polite to ask) and perhaps it would have been better to build stuff on your own.
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
thanks for everyone who pointed my mistakes i did to the map and what i needed to do
so..... i tried to change everything you pointed out (almost)
-red spawn was changed - the roof - the redspawn in general and the hall
-underworld was changes (got bigger and some props were changed)
-points's B Tower Was Changed

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

leprecan

L2: Junior Member
Feb 10, 2013
96
89
This is going to be a big ol post. I'll start by pointing out that your map has a leak. This ought to have been caught before uploading, as the 3D skybox breaks and causes players to render the entire map a second time if they so much as look in the wrong direction. Its quite likely that if the map was played by a full server, that the map would crash! Always make sure to check for leaks!

These checklists are a bit old, but still very useful for remembering common issues. They also touch on checking for leaks using pointfiles.
https://tf2maps.net/threads/tutoria...ou-have-all-of-this-before-going-alpha.18663/
https://tf2maps.net/threads/readme-1st-common-tf2-mapping-mistakes-and-how-to-fix-them.3050/

As far as the copied elements, RED spawn on the floor level is only somewhat retextured. The wallpaper was swapped out in the back, as well as the glass door for a wooden one. The only thing really different in the room is the ceiling (not pictured), and thats because you added a basic balcony up there, otherwise the geometry of the room is identical. This example bothers me because you were denying that this was a copy.

QPwq8Dm.jpg


It still looks the same as Manor's RED spawn. These sorts of small changes don't make the usage okay. I can tell between the original and your own pictures that you tried to rebuild the walls and in doing so didn't properly scale the wall panelling, but its the same room. You can't copy something so closely and say that they are different. The staircase and layout are still blatently copied.

The ceiling above last that was in gorge_event and also above the last point of Mann Manor was covered up, not removed, by a gigantic flat brush. You can even still see the stone ring that forms the bottom of it.

rggDYdY.jpg


Viewing from just above the flat wood ceiling, we can see the hidden element:

FN937BK.jpg


And the original in Mann Manor for context:

t5EDQ8G.jpg


The clocktower above second is the same prop as before, but the base of it has been covered by simple brushwork. The structure is identical in usage to the one in sunshine_event.

nppGEkZ.jpg


In Hell, you deleted the hellstones that were jutting out from the platforms, and added one additional large rock formation on the right hand side. Being unable to make Hell from scratch ought to be a challenge, or at least a learning experience. You could have looked at Hellstone's Hell as an example of how to do it properly, but you used the same arena and made very minor changes yet again.

x4onu7M.jpg


Upon further inspection, there is yet more! The Mann Manor chapel is in the background of the second point.

Yours:

a1N9muA.jpg


Original:

6emorGV.jpg


The entrance cover from Mann Manor is also the entrance cover for the mansion, albeit slightly edited into an L shape. The stairs at the base are the same though.

Yours:

xIMxWus.jpg


Original:

npG2UFc.jpg


I'm not entirely sure about this one, but there may also be a guest appearance of the hallway hole from Mann Manor as well.

Edit: The holes are unique

Yours:

85N49Mc.jpg


Original:

Yll7iuD.jpg


The hallway hole from gorge_event is completely unchanged, so I didn't picture it here.

On your Steamcommunity page you told ICS that you hadn't copied anything from Mann Manor, its pretty clear thats a lie. This is a serious topic, you can't just joke about copied stuff.

You may have gone a bit overzealous with the playerclipping. Many in map zones are clipped without context. The detailing is a bit excessive as well, with some rooms being coated in props, all the way up to the rafters. As the map is not optimized, this crowded detailing could cause trouble for your testers.

gHRMWk3.jpg


So lets talk optimization. This site has an excellent guide on optimizing your map: http://www.optimization.interlopers.net/

Many small actions like making your balcony railings or small broken bricks into detail brushes would help that hallway run a lot smoother and likely lower the amount of time it takes you to compile the map.

What I want to say with all these pictures is that you need to take more time with your personal work. Copying elements of your favorite Halloween maps like in the examples above was hopefully borne out of respect for them, but you only altered the elements that were pointed out in Crash's post, and for several of them very superficially. You must have known that you had copied other elements from those maps without permission.

The parts of the map that are entirely made by you, like the capture point pictured in the thumbnail here, are pretty good! Your own personal work with time and practice is what will end up making this map yours. With more practice, by asking questions and reading up on Hammer, all these problems can be fixed, but you can't rush your work and substitute in other peoples'.
 
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Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
thanks for pointing out some mistakes but. i couldnt get rid of the roof so easily but i did change it so it doesnt look anything like mans manor and gorge event.
the hole in the ground was mine i didnt took it if you see it has different wood placement,pipes and all this kind of stuff.
as far the point b tower is concerned its fine i will tell you why.
first of all its a prop every one can use.
polis ranger showed a map having the same prop and no one said anything about it.
about the redspawn i did some changes but i cant revome it and start again so it doesnt feel so much like the mans manor because:
1 the players wont spawn that often in that spawn 2 i did some changes with textures adding other features and yea
the entrance on the man manor is completely different
 

leprecan

L2: Junior Member
Feb 10, 2013
96
89
thanks for pointing out some mistakes but. i couldnt get rid of the roof so easily but i did change it so it doesnt look anything like mans manor and gorge event.
the hole in the ground was mine i didnt took it if you see it has different wood placement,pipes and all this kind of stuff.
as far the point b tower is concerned its fine i will tell you why.
first of all its a prop every one can use.
polis ranger showed a map having the same prop and no one said anything about it.
about the redspawn i did some changes but i cant revome it and start again so it doesnt feel so much like the mans manor because:
1 the players wont spawn that often in that spawn 2 i did some changes with textures adding other features and yea
the entrance on the man manor is completely different

You are right, taking a closer look I was indeed off base concerning the floor hole. However, your reasoning for using the tower prop is lacking the context you used it in. The tower is sitting above a cylindrical point with a spiral staircase leading up to it. It greatly resembles the set piece that it was used for in sinshine. The clocktower was rather hilariously in every map last year, but sinshine is, as far as I can recall, the only on to use it as a point centerpiece. The fact that your map uses it in the same way is at best reuse of a control point idea unnecessarily and at worst copying. Having access to props anyone can use still means that we ought to exercise good judgement over their use.

Also, that is a rather sorry excuse for not removing the RED spawn. None of those are reasons that you cannot remove it, more that you don't want to.
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
i did removed and i still will remove or change anything i did take from other maps but i need some time for exable the giant hole ... i just can do anything a lot of maps have it for exable lakeside , gorge .... whats the problem.
man manor had a roof that gorge has pretty much the same too but no one said nothing and it got to the game as well.
but i am not saying if gorge did have that i will too no.
i will change everything i can so its completely mine ok?
i think now it should be alright.
if i am mistaken feel free to tell me down below i really appreciate all the feedback and you really help me get better
 

TheClaudioAmericano

L1: Registered
Mar 27, 2013
46
16
if i am mistaken feel free to tell me down below i really appreciate all the feedback and you really help me get better

Read this again carefully, as I feel this is a good summary.

What I want to say with all these pictures is that you need to take more time with your personal work. Copying elements of your favorite Halloween maps like in the examples above was hopefully borne out of respect for them, but you only altered the elements that were pointed out in Crash's post, and for several of them very superficially. You must have known that you had copied other elements from those maps without permission.

The parts of the map that are entirely made by you, like the capture point pictured in the thumbnail here, are pretty good! Your own personal work with time and practice is what will end up making this map yours. With more practice, by asking questions and reading up on Hammer, all these problems can be fixed, but you can't rush your work and substitute in other peoples'.
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
thanks man for pointing out!
it really helps and i am working on that so i can improve the map thanks again
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
in this version:
-Skybox leak was fixed
-changed some builds and props that you gave me feedback to do so.
-underworld-hell was changed.
-more clip was added
-some pickaps like spells,ammo,health was changed ( for instance one small ammo box is now medium instead)
-fixed some issues
-added more skeletons
-added a few blood overlays.
-added a mini easter egg at underworld - a skeleton having a book - reading a book
-hell - underworld is now a bit bigger and also you dont spawn to the air randomly instead a portal is behind you when you spawn)
-some textures were changed

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,573
@basilhs333

I decided to run through the map and have to say, you still have yet to remove or rebuild the parts of the map that were not originally created by you. Yes, it's a lot of work and i'm sure you had good intentions in using other maps, but you really should not keep it - and here's why.

The parts of the maps that you took, just don't work together. They work for their maps, but not for yours. I see a lot of rooms with deadends that have no reason to be deadends, or any reason to go into them. They'd just be death-rooms. You have massive holes (the one from Gorge Event) in the ground that just don't work in hall way that you have it in. The spawn from Manor that you ripped doesn't work well because you have to turn around completely to leave the spawn - it's disorienting for players. The clock tower from Sinshine that you're using - doesn't work visually in that area, or gameplay wise. Why would there be a clock tower on the front of the manor like that, wouldn't they just save money and costs and put in on the manor itself? The hell that you picked (and sorry ics) is just really, really dull - you can make a better one. And the chapel from manor that you tucked away in a corner? it doesn't make sense - it's scaled improperly for where you have it and why would they build a church so close to a large manor (and vice versa).

Stealing parts of other maps isn't cool - in the past, it's been a bannable offense on this site. If it's not fixed, (which you have not done in the past few updates!) the staff have precedence to ban you from the site, so you can't share or test your map, at all. I'd highly suggest that any of the parts of the map that you've taken from other maps, you rip out, and remake the area with your ideas and vision - I know you can do something creative, so do it!
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
you are right and i will take notice and try to complete everything you told me but i need to ask you something what do you mean when you are saying dead ends?
tell me at least 1 place - room of the map that has this feature just so i can fix it of course.
and also what do you mean the hell is dull?
what can i do to make it better for exable?
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,573
you are right and i will take notice and try to complete everything you told me but i need to ask you something what do you mean when you are saying dead ends?
tell me at least 1 place - room of the map that has this feature just so i can fix it of course.
and also what do you mean the hell is dull?
what can i do to make it better for exable?

The first area, right after you go into the interior of the manor, there are rooms that are just rooms. Those are kind of meh, they provide no addition to gameplay, and more or less detract from it. Players go into them, to try and advance around a choke, or to get a flank, and they can't because it's just a room.

Hell is just a long channel going down - I think you could have abit more fun with it. Helltower had a great hell.
 

Billo

aa
Feb 8, 2016
921
405
you are right but what could i do :/
i was thinking a portal would spawn just like when you kill merasmus and go to the hell but i dont know how to do it properly
or at least make the portal more useful or you know for players to find it easily.
do you think a good idea would be if you fall to the long hole and then spawn to the hell?
but with this everyone would jump to the hole.
i dont know have any better suggestions?