Avantiville

CTF Avantiville b32

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
445
116
I think because of the CTF aspect, it would be hard to defend the last point if you have an uber or a scout with bonk, and another scout to cap the intel. With no wait time to cap, you dont really need to destroy the sentrys. Also, when I played, there was a weird clipping issue on the third point, you can jump on the wooden railing, but not go through it. Finally, the prop fade distances are crazy close, I saw some rocks just popping outta no where.
 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
New version released, _b27. DL link updated.

Lots of changes in this update:


- Fixed game scoring
- Rescaled entire 2nd half of map down about 1/4
- Added various gameplay terrain/prop features
- Added Custom objectives menu and photos
- Added gameplay text (must have min HUD disabled)
- Reduced max time to 8 minutes
- Reduced flag return from 60 to 30
- Improved lighting
- Improved signs
- Moved caps to the Control points 1 and 4 back.
- Closed hole in roof of CP3 hut
- Fixed prop collisions
- Player Clipped roofs off by CP3, and other various additions
- Added nobuild in the breakable doorway


edit: w00t 500 posts
 

HojoTheGreat

L5: Dapper Member
Nov 11, 2008
206
34
Alright, some quick minor things I noticed from the last two test days. You took care of a lot of the fade distances on things, a couple were left out however:
The smokestack
ctf_avantiville_b270001.jpg

ctf_avantiville_b270002.jpg

The rock
ctf_avantiville_b270003.jpg

ctf_avantiville_b270004.jpg


And I pointed this to you in game, but to remind you to texture it:
ctf_avantiville_b270000.jpg


Overall it's flowing really well, obviously once everyone plays a round or two. The signs are generally well placed, however I'd recommend walking through it yourself from both teams' perspectives and come out of each spawn, following your signs. It's a tedious process but there were a few confusing areas where all you have to do is go the wrong way and you're totally screwed heh.

Great map though, keep it up!
 

Fireman

L4: Comfortable Member
Mar 21, 2008
150
59
Both teams had difficulties holding the last point once the previous was capped. The attacking team would always roll over it in short order before the defenders had a chance to regroup and build up their defenses again.
 

Squirrelinabox

L1: Registered
Mar 27, 2009
27
5
As others have said, it was very difficult for the defending team to win. I think out of the 4 rounds played, the defense never came close to holding out. It's mostly due to the ability of the offense to just make a bum rush with the flag and touch the cap point to take it. If a sentry is not on the point, anybody can just rush in and cap. Even with a sentry or two, one uber or momentary sap from a spy allows the point to be rushed and taken.

Other than that issue, I liked the variety in gameplay with various vertical tactical advantages along with multiple routes. The initial confusion was to be expected from a different gametype and multiple points, but it didn't take too long for most to get a hang of it.
 

MungoKing

L3: Member
Jul 12, 2008
148
47
Played this map today in Gameday, actually really fun! It seemed heavily in favour of Blue though, but that may just be the nature of the gameplay. I think the advantage they had was just insta capping. But I'm not sure my team had that many engineers? The main issue was signage, or lack there of. I was completely lost for most of the time. Granted, I found people to kill, but was still confused most of the time as to where the objective was, until I stumbled upon it :). Obviously, after playing more rounds I'm sure I'll know where everything is, but more signs may be good. Oh and the one (?) ladder that you use is NOT an issue, it's a very short time that you're on it, but some players may prefer a ramp, so just remember that. But yeah, overall, quite fun, both teams won I think when we played. Keep up the good work, I look forward to playing this again! :thumbup1:
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
445
116
The one time I got confused with signage was, I think the respawn when defending point 1. You had to go left into a cave that lead to point 2, but exiting spawn, a big open area is infront of you. It got me and some others confused at first. Maybe add a sign like badwater that goes down after you stop using that spawn? Overall, the map plays great, Im glad to have a good Avanti remake, my fav map in TFC:D
 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
Thanks all for the feedback.

I think I have a solution:

What if Red could block a cap like a regular CP?

I'm thinking that is the key to keeping it fair, I'll work on it....


As far as signs, It's tough, there's alot of cross-traffic. I can add some more moving signs. My problem is, I dont know where to put cuz I don't get lost! :p (TY Ninjilla for pointing out where you got lost)
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
445
116
Red blocking point could be nice, would make Ubers and Kritz much more useful on any point. Try it out for b28? :thumbup:
 

captainAngry

L420: High Member
Feb 1, 2009
434
247
We got a chance to play test today:


It was liked but there were some problems that were hard to overlook. One thing people complained about is that red people were spawning right where the flag spawned after point 2.

Near the third point there is a ledge. It is a great place to build SGs, however there is a no-build right behind the ledge which keeps you from standing there while you build. I think the doorway is open enough that you could probably get rid of this.
ctf_avantiville_b270002.gif


The last point needs a nobuild on the actual cap point. It's very odd to be able to build directly on the point.

The last problem we saw was that you could get stuck under the water in a certain spot. Probably an easy fix:
ctf_avantiville_b270000.gif

ctf_avantiville_b270001.gif
 

HojoTheGreat

L5: Dapper Member
Nov 11, 2008
206
34
RAWR!

This spot needs signage like something FIERCE. Most people will run right past the left passage, going straight instead and end up going a big fat circle.
ctf_avantiville_b270012.jpg
 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
One thing people complained about is that red people were spawning right where the flag spawned after point 2.


I'm sorry, I'm not followin' ya....

say again?

Thanks for the awesome feedback, and posting the rating results. That is very kind of you. Thanks again.
 

captainAngry

L420: High Member
Feb 1, 2009
434
247
The first spawn for red (in between 2 and 3) is what I was talking about. Right outside that spawn is where the flag spawns after blue caps the third point. I was mistaken when I wrote that as I thought it was where the flag spawned after the second point was capped.

Anyway, people were complaining that that spawn point was too close to where the intel was spawning. I don't know if people were actually spawning there or just able to use it as a resupply and camping the area, but it got a lot of complaints.
 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
I gotcha (I think)

When intel #3 is active, red spawns right by the #3 cap point (not the intel spawn). So it can be tough to break through when Red's got 2 or three built up engineers.


Which, I have heard that complaint once before... and it's a valid complaint.
 

captainAngry

L420: High Member
Feb 1, 2009
434
247
The complaints that I was getting was about the #3 inteal and the red spawn by the #2 cap point. I don't know if it was an issue of being able to go back into that respawn after CP 2 was capped or what.

I'll have to play it again and double check because like I said, I didn't see it with my own two eyes.
 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
Some major things accomplished:

- Have a working built in flag return timer that counts down the last 15 seconds before flag returns (this was a pain!)

- Spawn room patterns changed and tested out OK (this fixes blu advancing too fast and spawning into a hornet's nest of SGs and enemies.) Also, fixed some spawns not locking (like mentioned in the above post)

- Working cap block system, Red can now stand on the point and block blu from capping the intel. The cap zone must be clear of red in order for blu to cap.


...more to come.
 

littlewilly91

L1: Registered
Sep 2, 2008
10
0
Yeah and Valve will never make it official. It does look nice up on that roof though. Can Demos/ soldiers get up there?
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
-regarding the ladder

No, this was discussed earlier in the thread.

Some feedback:

ctf_avantiville_b270000.jpg


Overlay is stretched.. a lot. Looks odd to me but as a mapper i can tell, you get away with it somewhat due to the painty style of the material for tf2. I don't know whether this was something players ever querried. But mostly it's that the overlay does not overlap the floor brush next to it. Just cuts off suddenly.

Also your pipes are non-solid. This looks odd, especially when i can walk through them as they poke out from teh wall quite far. Valve clips them and keeps them solid in their spawns and i would recommend the same.

ctf_avantiville_b270001.jpg


These items seemed quite high to me. I usually keep mine the height they get placed into the world when clicking items into the world through the camera view. Generally you don't want a player with full health or ammo able to sit ontop of the item and see into it, as it break immersion.

ctf_avantiville_b270002.jpg


I noticed you understood what i meant with the ladder suggestion. Are you happy with it like this? I think it looks nice and does what you were after by making players think twice about trying to climb up it.

As for the boxes i don't think they are necassery, and having them visible as you exit spawn might make players who have not played the original think that this is the way "forwards" regardless of signage. I have found players will just run into open space.

ctf_avantiville_b270003.jpg


Self explainitory.

ctf_avantiville_b270004.jpg


Nodraw on back of wall visible. I would recommend joining the building on left with that on the right. Either that or texture the wall normally and just increase the lightmap scale if you're worried about optimisation.

ctf_avantiville_b270007.jpg


This prop had a low fade distance, it is important here because this is the capture point and a lot of players will see action here, so large props that fade like this stick out like a sore thumb to everyone (or in this case, mostly the defenders).

ctf_avantiville_b270008.jpg


Random gap.

ctf_avantiville_b270009.jpg


Window has low fade distance. It's a low poly model as it is but also players will be making sure snipers are not watching them so it would be wise to increase it's visibility. As a lot of attention will be paid here.

Also most average speed classes (i didn't check solly or heavy) are able to follow the arrow's onto this balcony, i don't know if this is intentional or it's effects ingame to gameplay but i thought i would point it out if you wern't aware.

ctf_avantiville_b270010.jpg


Crates in tunnel with low fade distances.

ctf_avantiville_b270012.jpg


I didn't like the interior design of the final point, but i could tell you hadn't fully developed it yet. As the final point you should think to make it as "epic" as possible. Something i failed so far with my own version, as well. The ramp hides/obstructs the final point which is generally bad for a number of reasons. I would recommend this alternative if you intend for defenders to have some higher ground to defend from, and still shoot down onto the point. As the higher ground is only good for spamming at the entrance. Generally you'll also want this structure to be spy-techy.
 
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l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
:) Thanks grazr...

I'll work 'em in.


I really like your suggestion for the ramp at cp4.