CP Yukon

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Aragon

L1: Registered
Nov 19, 2008
48
6
What version were you playing? I have not noticed this in yukon_rc as many/all of the changes I've made were to address this.

Whoever controls the canyon will be able to make a strong push, and with the changes, the flank from bottom should not be underestimated...


The problem arises.
A team will turtle at CP2 waiting for team in the middle to attack (usually the team will hold up the hill a bit) The other team has to urber around the corner to take on the team. The defending team retreats as much as they can before blowing urber gaining massive advantage. The point is very small so there is not many places to go so once your un ubered you die pretty fast to urbered players.

Team caps middle as defensive drop into holding second will usually occur depending on amount of players. A scout sitting at the bottomn watching can call anyone one trying to flank and soldiers can very easily spam the door way where they come from + scout doing damage.

Therefore team will probably not have urber advantage but will be getting close prob 30% off but a fair push in will require a fair bit of urber to attack a retreating team. So it is very difficult to attack a defending team and kill them.

I am currently running second season of a competition in Australia called CFL (custom fortress league) it runs custom maps. This map is being played in Round 2 (follower Round 1 and Waste Round 2) R4-5-6 maps haven't been picked but one could possibly be hillside.

There could well be a few STV demos of matchs for some of the games and also if ur awake or not at work you could probably check it out in STV.

Oh You latest version RC i think it is.
 
Last edited:

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
It's unfortunate that you could not be present for our review of Yukon. There was plenty of feedback.

Initial thoughts; Players thought it was too dark. Certain areas were dim and became hard to see when the spam sets in. However, someone did ask if the map was official or custom, so you did something right there :) The map played well, balance-wise. There were plenty of back-and-forth action. We played 3 rounds, each lasting approximately 10 minutes, resulting in two victories (last round ended due to mp_timelimit) with a full, 32-man server.

Unfortunately, most players did not like Yukon. I share their thoughts on the lack of alternate routes. They did not like being repeatedly forced into the same chokepoints. Usually in valve maps, there are about "2.5 routes" to the various objectives.

The final CP was fairly difficult to capture. Players were complaining about long travel times, and the point's extreme proximity to the spawn.
Some players were also grimacing at the long respawn time the attackers had when assaulting the final CP (especially heavies).
I should note that it was not impossible, however, we did eventually manage to capture it twice within the 30 minutes.

Notable quotes from regulars:
"its too big and too dependent on teleporters for us fatties"
"the last point is way to close to the spawn"

In the end, however, the map had to be forced to end manually. You forgot to have setstalemateontimelimit 1 sent to tf_gamerules.

Personally, I still enjoyed the map. :)
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
Yes, the map is quite big and the ways of getting in to the second point from third is a problem. It takes 26 seconds for a demo to walk from spawn to third point using the better route (the top one), whereas taking the same kind of route in badlands or granary is around 19 seconds total, so you have a problem there.

You need an alternate route to third, in addition to the two you already have. I can't make a good suggestion myself, but I think a passage using the left side of the middle (your two entrances to second are on the right side) would work well.
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
make the shorter route move obvious.

Nobody ever notices it because it's off in the darkness and away from the "main" path
 

Tinker

aa
Oct 30, 2008
672
334
I think the shortest route should always be the most highlighted and obvious - a longer route should be the one that looks optional.
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
The lower, shorter route is the shittier one though. Trading off height advantage for shorter time is worse for every class except heavy. The upper route allows players to spam third easier, and also allows players to take the upper catwalks.
 

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
1,325
The lower, shorter route is the shittier one though. Trading off height advantage for shorter time is worse for every class except heavy. The upper route allows players to spam third easier, and also allows players to take the upper catwalks.

I'm not sure what you misunderstand?

I'm not going to make the best route the shittiest route. You either get there the fastest, or you get to the battle late with a strong position, choose your poison. Getting there faster without the height advantage is a boon to spies and pyros, even medics once the battle's been started. It's a boon to any player that wants to be in the battle ASAP.

This is what makes my middle unique; also, compare the time it takes to take the upper route by foot to the time it takes to walk up the ramps to the top catwalk in mid Granary...
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
well, the reason i was suggesting a third passage is so that it breaks up stalemates on the second point. you can have it as a little deviant passage from the upper route, similar to how the buildings at the second point in badlands function.
 

kankle_king

L4: Comfortable Member
Jan 31, 2009
161
86
We had the idea of placing a 2nd level above the lower path. It could be a little taller than the 2CP roof, but demos/sollys can defend well from the CP roof. This could help the major problem of a demoman completely shutting off the lower path while the sollys/combo spam the top side while waiting for uber. For an example of what I mean, look at resoance CP2, it has a lower path as well as a higher one. Just a thought :)

edit: also what tinker said, and if you stand in the back corner of the cp, it won't cap until you move up a little bit.
 

Aragon

L1: Registered
Nov 19, 2008
48
6
Solution which i thought was to create an extra flanking tunnel. Coming from 3rd point towards second through the small tunnel there is a large gap on the 3rd point side of the bumpy hill. Create a tunnel there that circles around and comes out under neath the bridge. This gives cover so that teams can not hold on top and allows for flanking class's far more access and if its done right no team will be able to predict a team coming from there unless there scouts are in the tunnel looking.

Or link up the top level going of point 3 with a level equivalent to two and join onto the bridge or even just have it drop off or something.