CP Yukon

Discussion in 'Map Showcase' started by MangyCarface, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    Due to popular demand I've changed the name back to Yukon.

    This map seeks to address the underuse of some of the utility classes in micro (6v6) play through distinct path choices, several useful dropdowns, and creative geometry placement limiting the effectiveness of the more used classes (namely the junk above the center point preventing cross-map leaps.) Additionally the usage of the FaN over the scattergun is emphasized as it opens up many flanking opportunities for an active scout.

    Thanks to:
    Acegikmo, my mapping partner and creator of all the custom textures
    Shmitz, for making the alpha displacement material
    Akill from ETF2L and his crew for introducing core comp concepts to me and helping me understand what they need
    Individual Feedback: F_M, Rahmie, Akill, oPlaiD, Glue, KankleKing, Litany, Justin
    Playtesters: 2fort2furious, PuniPuniNa, ETF2L pickups, AoC pickup, TF2F pickups et al.
    Current version is so far problem free.
    RC4 Changelist:
    Sawmill assets integrated
    Middle point moved upwards
    Middle ground levelled
    Middle bridge roof made accessible
    Two flanking routes added onto middle

    Enjoy!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012
  2. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

    Messages:
    7,099
    Positive Ratings:
    5,745
    I somehow managed to totally miss the previous thread for this, hopefully with the new subforum I won't lose it again and can actually keep track of it. You sould submit it to gameday even if you're getting testing elsewhere so we can all play it ;)

    ...especially as I pretty much only play tf2 on gamedays now :(

    EDIT: "ASS" as a tag.... whaa?
     
  3. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    Hehe, the map's nickname is ass rage, drpepper got a real kick out of that.

    I'll definitely submit it to next gameday. It got tagged onto the end of the last one because I finished it up just in time, but I'll meet the deadline for the next.

    Anyway reposting the DvD (dev vs detail):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Note in the third shot, the gap in the sniper fences exists in the covered bridge's fallen planks.
     
  4. FLOOR_MASTER

    FLOOR_MASTER L3: Member

    Messages:
    119
    Positive Ratings:
    139
    Some thoughts on A1 based on our tests at 2f2f...

    [​IMG]
    There are very few escape options at the center point. Adding paths on either side as indicated would help big time.

    [​IMG]
    A sentry placed here is very difficult to counter due to the sharp corner, and it effectively locks down the right exit. There's also a huge swath of unknown territory that you have to assess just as you exit that point. You either have to slow down and look around, or you just blaze right through. Either way, it's vulnerable to ambushes, traps, and the like. I think it needs to be widened into a conical shape so that you have an advance view of what's out there and a less difficult time dealing with sentries on the right.

    [​IMG]
    This is an unusual bottleneck that forces you to become vulnerable to splash damage, not to mention pass through one predictable spot. I'm not sure if this was intended (to encourage you to drop down below?), but it seems strange.

    [​IMG]
    Capturing 2/4 can get frustrating with defense taking pot shots from these two corners. Add to that the steep incline to the right that makes it difficult to anticipate players coming up from that path. I don't know what's best here, but it's something to think about.

    [​IMG]
    A foot or two more clearance in the interior here would help make it feel less claustrophobic.

    [​IMG]
    Can the outer (dirt) edge be widened a bit?

    I'm not a huge fan of the name. In fact, I think it's awful :). "Ashhh Ridggggggge" doesn't roll off the tongue like "Yukon" did.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  5. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    203
    Positive Ratings:
    31
    Yea...+1 for yukon, I liked that name.
     
  6. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    There's no way to thank at the moment, but thanks for all that floor, I'll implement as much as I can.

    Still waiting on 6v6 feedback....
    Name's debatable up until the final version, so we'll see ;)
     
  7. drp

    aa drp

    Messages:
    2,254
    Positive Ratings:
    2,555
    if you want to get something going, ill help out with 6v6.
     
  8. Termaximus

    Termaximus L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    229
    Positive Ratings:
    32
    Looking very nice from the screens.
     
  9. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    507
    Positive Ratings:
    111
    I love seeing the dev vs. detail shots.
     
  10. no means nomad

    no means nomad L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    11
    Engineer stuff:
    I haven't done it in a regular match yet because I don't like building on my own points that much, but a sentry in this position, once other engineers find it, has the potential to be absurdly overpowered.
    [​IMG]
    Soldiers and demomen won't be able to get much off at you from the tunnel because they're descending but firing up at you, the right side is covered, and the control point is covered. Maybe you want to slap something there so engineers can't build up there.

    I haven't really seen an engineer build up on the 2/4 point yet, but this spot is flashing some warning signs for me.
    [​IMG]
    This is the most tempting place to build as an engineer. You keep the most ground, you cover every entrance, and you have a pretty good distance/line of sight on any enemies that might come at you. It's so good it's the only place you'd ever want to build if you were defending 2/4. The inclines in that area make it hard to build, but it's possible to squeeze a sentry in. Maybe you want to adjust the terrain a little so that's not possible.

    And please put a medium ammo under the 2/4 point bridge opposite of the health pack so I can play offensive engineer down there.
     
  11. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    Criticism from a few competitive players:

    From Juk3BoxX
    There are 90 degree angles in the dirt that form two big ledges across the "high path" from point two to three and people can get stuck on that moving back and forth. (I'll try to remember to take screenshots and post them back here)

    I also heard a few people in the PUG say that it would be better to have a small but flat bridge spanning the gap at point one instead of the awkward pipe and I agree.

    From BloodSire-AA-
    played the map, flows very well, is nice and unique

    problems/complaints:
    -getting stuck on some random places impeded fighting
    -lack of mini health bottles

    all together, it was very well recieved
     
  12. Tinker

    aa Tinker

    Messages:
    672
    Positive Ratings:
    333
    I don't agree with removing engineer spots. As of late, lots of map criticism goes to good engineer spots, and requests to remove them - but engineers are a class as well. The spots aren't overpowered in height or place much more than any other "designed" sentry spot. I say keep them in.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. no means nomad

    no means nomad L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    11
    A spot that's obvious and repeated shouldn't be the ideal placement, or you're encouraging the same thing to happen on the map every time. If a sentry placement is too good then Engineers will always go there. Setting up in a set place everytime is mind numbingly stupid from a gameplay perspective, and while you can offer somewhat designated spots to the lower end Engineers they shouldn't be the best spots.

    Sentry placement should be dynamic based on the battle, including the flow and class composition of the other team, not in the same cubby/nook/etc. for the Engineer to run to and set up on after his team takes a point.

    Right now Ash Ridge has more than enough places for sentries to be viable, but having really powerful positions removes the dynamic gameplay that comes from finding them.
     
  14. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    Lots of good feedback to ponder! Thanks guys.

    I appreciate you forwarding that stuff Cerious. I may need more specific examples for clipping issues so I can remove all of them.

    I personally hold that the pipe has to stay. It is the 'risky route' for offense- there's a cost/benefit to running along it, being the speed at which it takes you to the point vs. the ease of falling/being knocked off. The left and right paths are more stable but slower.

    I also have plans for 1 more small HP, though I'm open to more placement suggestions.
     
  15. Apom

    Apom L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    366
    Positive Ratings:
    62
    I agree that the pipe is awkward. When you're walking on it during the initial rush, and turn around to heal a teammate, chances are you'll fall. Meh.

    Some other stuff in attached screenshots:

    #1. the awning here is annoying. If you jump too close to it, you'll smack your head into it and lose some time. Put it higher.

    #2. I just came out of RED's first forward spawn and don't have the slightst clue of where I'm supposed to go.

    #3. overlapping models :eek:

    #4. This railing is really anoying, remove it. Possibly add a wedged clip brush to allow players to walk on it with out having to jump themselves, but that's complicated.
     
  16. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    i guess a bridge along the pipe like in granary would be a simple yet effective solution

    edit: here is the map thread there: http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/forums/thread/391832/
    it's becoming fairly popular there

    more criticism:
    smitherz:
    This map looks fantastic. I love the look and feel to it and it seems like it would play really well competitively. The pipe does seem out of place just due to the general theme of the map, but visually and layout wise this is definitely one of the most well-done custom push maps I've ever seen for TF2.

    Hershey741:
    Great map, but get stuck on everything no matter where you are. Attackers respawn times need to be shortened.

    i'll be running through the map and snappin screenies myself of trouble areas k?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  17. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    Thanks!

    This is the reason I'll be keeping the pipe as is:
    "There are some nice spots to ambush from. not only highground but there are LOWGROUND spots soldiers can catch people off guard from by jumping up to the enemy. That pipe on cp1. the medic usually ubers across it. Well placed rocket will knock him to the ground." -Akill

    Exactly the behavior I'd like to encourage.
     
  18. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    Lower pit at the first point kind of seemed like a death trap to me. Fall down from the pipe into the pit and you're dead.

    #1 Blu sign Red territory (1st point)
    #2 getting stuck here (1st point)
    #3 these doors seem a little wall maybe the see-through ones would work better (like the one-way doors in Dustbowl)
    #4 you should let players know that you can go right OR left, not just right. use another arrow here as well.
    #5 eurgh lighting it looks disgusting
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  19. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    #6 You know how in ctf_2fort's blu base, there is an L shaped hallway leading out to the courtyard? In that hallway is a small little detail room on the side that expands it and makes it feel less claustrophobic. You could replicate that here on both sides for good measure.
    #7 bad clipping
    #8 unnaturally sharp cliff. Goes up at a degree and snaps flat at that point. Smooth all cliffs like that please, it makes the map look oh-so much better.
    #9 and 10 are annoying clips. I think a lot of other players were pissed off by these too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  20. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    #11 this ramp and all of its sides need much better clipping. I'd check the entire area as well by going scout and running around the 2nd point as much as possible, checking for bad clips.
    #12 Weird textures. The wood clashing with the rockwall is odd and ugly, and the wood just seems a little bit repetitive.
    #13 not exactly the biggest fan of text on glass
    #14 THESE ROCKS COULD HELP SO MUCH WITH SPRUCING UP YOUR BORING ROCK FLOORS. JUST SPRINKLE A FEW AND PRESTO, VARIATION. No, really, just put these on some of those cliffs at the middle point, and generally around other places would be really good.