English Mobster
L6: Sharp Member
- Jul 10, 2011
- 355
- 299
Occupy Los Angeles here.
While I myself aren't making extended stays over at the protest site, a lot of my friends have been camped out there for the last month or so. I've visited from time to time, and it really is well-organized, considering there are no official leaders.
Since I wasn't really anything more than a visitor to the movement (my day job is freelance journalism for a local paper, while I support the cause and donated $20 to the movement, a tight college schedule keeps me from getting too heavily involved), I can only speak for the 3 or so days I spent there and the notes I gathered for my article. Even so, it was nice to see them welcoming me into their community. Everyone there was nice, and it really made me feel a sense of community, a group of people coming together as one for a common cause.
From what I've seen, nearly everyone does their part. There's a nice medical tent with plenty of supplies and medics offering services (for free, mostly!). They also have people picking up trash and sorting trash and recycling and churches from all faiths (and a few atheist organizations) handing out bread and water.
They have some chefs as well, who make pretty good food using what they have on hand and will also give it out. These guys, while they would let you have it for free if you were in need, do have a "recommended donation" thing going on, so it's not COMPLETELY some communal system.
While I haven't stayed overnight terribly often, everything seems well. I'm certain you guys have heard what it's like.
If I have one complaint about the camps, it's the strained relations between some of the members. A little under a quarter are homeless and staying in the camps because of the free room and board, and it's creating friction with those who are trying to pass a message.
While the tensions aren't that high and anyone you speak to will tell you they're more than happy to take care of the homeless, after spending a couple nights there you can tell that the homeless sit around, get drunk, don't clean up, don't help in the protests, and don't help out in general. The pictures you see bashing OWS in the media (and the crimes in general) can usually be linked back to these homeless people, from what I've seen.
They need to be taken care of, and everyone is welcome here. To not take care of them or to force them to leave is contrary to our message, but the fact a majority of them don't really do too much (don't get me wrong, there are more than a couple who DO help out) is beginning to form some cracks in the movement, at least in Occupy LA. We just hope they would help out a little more, but for the most part, things over at OWS are fine and dandy, at least on our end.
We're getting kicked out on Monday.
Mayor says we're obstructing the liberties of others by removing the park from public use. But anyone can walk in; you don't need to donate or stay, people visiting the park are more than welcome to do so. Accommodations have been made for those who don't want to come near the camps, everything's clean and tidy.
Yet apparently Mayor Villaraigosa, despite repeatedly claiming that he would NEVER violate our constitutional rights, that the stuff you see in the other cities would NEVER happen in his city, the man always saying he supports the movement 100%, says that we must leave.
I had been camping out with an old high school friend, currently going to UCLA. He says he isn't leaving, and the consensus seems to be that in the face of arrest, we'll sit in our tents and have them drag us to our jail cells. Most of the tents are staying; I have classes and such to attend on Monday, so I'll have to hear either from him or from the news how it went.
They have a few classes going on about proper civil disobedience and defense against police brutality and how to protect against tear gas. Everywhere there is emphasis on being non-violent, about keeping cool and letting level heads prevail. If worst comes to worst, a few areas have set up places to let you know where to find good attorneys who will help you for free should you be arrested as part of OWS.
There are ominous eviction notices around the encampment, and the police, while friendly currently, are becoming more and more everpresent. 12:01 Monday morning is the deadline (Pacific time), and I have no doubt there'll be the same sort of stuff you saw in New York. I won't be a part of the civil disobedience come eviction time, but LA is going to be on the news in the next few days, same as New York and the other occupy protests.
E: To be relevant to the current thread of discussion, the legality of the ability to kick us out is also questionable. To kick us out is to violate the First Amendment right of Freedom of Assembly, and any arrests made will be thrown out of court.
They're trying to nab us on laws that say we can't stay overnight at the park, which begs the question of whether it is right to enforce a law if it hurts the rights of others.
The Supreme Court has traditionally sided with the notion that encampments and occupations are legal and cannot be broken up in THAT context, under THOSE laws.
However, LA is also citing "public safety", not a general law, but more of an idea that such a large gathering will cause more crime and disease within the city. Not something I personally saw in the camp, but one can definitely get that idea if they take a look at where the majority of the homeless folk I spoke of earlier hung out. Again, that's less than a quarter of the living areas of the camp, possibly not even 10%. While still maintained to the best of our ability, each area is in general tended by those who live there. Many of the people in the homeless area don't do much to tend their area of the camp, and while again we have nothing against them, it's that area that the media and the cities are using against us.
If THIS issue is brought between the Supreme Court, they have traditionally sided with the idea that ANY threat to public safety is a lawful reason to violate the Bill of Rights. That's why if someone shoots a firearm up in the air at a rally (not OWS, just an example), the police have a right to converge on that rally violate freedom of assembly by breaking it up, as it is now considered a threat to public safety.
So it is really a matter of how the court looks at it. If they try to book us on camping illegally, the city has no right to remove constitutional protections as long as we are trying to spread a message. If they get us on public safety, which is much broader and more open to debate, there are certainly areas of the camp where you are more likely to find something missing should you leave it in a tent you have nearby, areas with more trash and broken beer bottles on the ground. That is when they can legally come in and kick us out, provided they don't use excessive force.
One thing I liked about my time in OWS was a sign I saw posted in the park. It read something along these lines (not verbatim, as this is from memory, but fairly close):
"If we find a man with his house full of newspapers, we call him crazy. The same thing with a woman with her house full of cats. But if we find someone with a house full of money, we put them on the cover of Fortune magazine and are told to look up to them as role models."
I asked my friend if he knew where the quote was from, and he said that he wasn't sure, but that he had heard it was from an ex-Canadian Prime Minister. If any of you Canadians know it, please do tell so I can cite it correctly.
Also, Frozen, I see no report button on the left side. Or at all. I've never had to/wanted to use it (maybe on one post), but that's always mystified me about this site. Where is it?
While I myself aren't making extended stays over at the protest site, a lot of my friends have been camped out there for the last month or so. I've visited from time to time, and it really is well-organized, considering there are no official leaders.
Since I wasn't really anything more than a visitor to the movement (my day job is freelance journalism for a local paper, while I support the cause and donated $20 to the movement, a tight college schedule keeps me from getting too heavily involved), I can only speak for the 3 or so days I spent there and the notes I gathered for my article. Even so, it was nice to see them welcoming me into their community. Everyone there was nice, and it really made me feel a sense of community, a group of people coming together as one for a common cause.
From what I've seen, nearly everyone does their part. There's a nice medical tent with plenty of supplies and medics offering services (for free, mostly!). They also have people picking up trash and sorting trash and recycling and churches from all faiths (and a few atheist organizations) handing out bread and water.
They have some chefs as well, who make pretty good food using what they have on hand and will also give it out. These guys, while they would let you have it for free if you were in need, do have a "recommended donation" thing going on, so it's not COMPLETELY some communal system.
While I haven't stayed overnight terribly often, everything seems well. I'm certain you guys have heard what it's like.
If I have one complaint about the camps, it's the strained relations between some of the members. A little under a quarter are homeless and staying in the camps because of the free room and board, and it's creating friction with those who are trying to pass a message.
While the tensions aren't that high and anyone you speak to will tell you they're more than happy to take care of the homeless, after spending a couple nights there you can tell that the homeless sit around, get drunk, don't clean up, don't help in the protests, and don't help out in general. The pictures you see bashing OWS in the media (and the crimes in general) can usually be linked back to these homeless people, from what I've seen.
They need to be taken care of, and everyone is welcome here. To not take care of them or to force them to leave is contrary to our message, but the fact a majority of them don't really do too much (don't get me wrong, there are more than a couple who DO help out) is beginning to form some cracks in the movement, at least in Occupy LA. We just hope they would help out a little more, but for the most part, things over at OWS are fine and dandy, at least on our end.
We're getting kicked out on Monday.
Mayor says we're obstructing the liberties of others by removing the park from public use. But anyone can walk in; you don't need to donate or stay, people visiting the park are more than welcome to do so. Accommodations have been made for those who don't want to come near the camps, everything's clean and tidy.
Yet apparently Mayor Villaraigosa, despite repeatedly claiming that he would NEVER violate our constitutional rights, that the stuff you see in the other cities would NEVER happen in his city, the man always saying he supports the movement 100%, says that we must leave.
I had been camping out with an old high school friend, currently going to UCLA. He says he isn't leaving, and the consensus seems to be that in the face of arrest, we'll sit in our tents and have them drag us to our jail cells. Most of the tents are staying; I have classes and such to attend on Monday, so I'll have to hear either from him or from the news how it went.
They have a few classes going on about proper civil disobedience and defense against police brutality and how to protect against tear gas. Everywhere there is emphasis on being non-violent, about keeping cool and letting level heads prevail. If worst comes to worst, a few areas have set up places to let you know where to find good attorneys who will help you for free should you be arrested as part of OWS.
There are ominous eviction notices around the encampment, and the police, while friendly currently, are becoming more and more everpresent. 12:01 Monday morning is the deadline (Pacific time), and I have no doubt there'll be the same sort of stuff you saw in New York. I won't be a part of the civil disobedience come eviction time, but LA is going to be on the news in the next few days, same as New York and the other occupy protests.
E: To be relevant to the current thread of discussion, the legality of the ability to kick us out is also questionable. To kick us out is to violate the First Amendment right of Freedom of Assembly, and any arrests made will be thrown out of court.
They're trying to nab us on laws that say we can't stay overnight at the park, which begs the question of whether it is right to enforce a law if it hurts the rights of others.
The Supreme Court has traditionally sided with the notion that encampments and occupations are legal and cannot be broken up in THAT context, under THOSE laws.
However, LA is also citing "public safety", not a general law, but more of an idea that such a large gathering will cause more crime and disease within the city. Not something I personally saw in the camp, but one can definitely get that idea if they take a look at where the majority of the homeless folk I spoke of earlier hung out. Again, that's less than a quarter of the living areas of the camp, possibly not even 10%. While still maintained to the best of our ability, each area is in general tended by those who live there. Many of the people in the homeless area don't do much to tend their area of the camp, and while again we have nothing against them, it's that area that the media and the cities are using against us.
If THIS issue is brought between the Supreme Court, they have traditionally sided with the idea that ANY threat to public safety is a lawful reason to violate the Bill of Rights. That's why if someone shoots a firearm up in the air at a rally (not OWS, just an example), the police have a right to converge on that rally violate freedom of assembly by breaking it up, as it is now considered a threat to public safety.
So it is really a matter of how the court looks at it. If they try to book us on camping illegally, the city has no right to remove constitutional protections as long as we are trying to spread a message. If they get us on public safety, which is much broader and more open to debate, there are certainly areas of the camp where you are more likely to find something missing should you leave it in a tent you have nearby, areas with more trash and broken beer bottles on the ground. That is when they can legally come in and kick us out, provided they don't use excessive force.
One thing I liked about my time in OWS was a sign I saw posted in the park. It read something along these lines (not verbatim, as this is from memory, but fairly close):
"If we find a man with his house full of newspapers, we call him crazy. The same thing with a woman with her house full of cats. But if we find someone with a house full of money, we put them on the cover of Fortune magazine and are told to look up to them as role models."
I asked my friend if he knew where the quote was from, and he said that he wasn't sure, but that he had heard it was from an ex-Canadian Prime Minister. If any of you Canadians know it, please do tell so I can cite it correctly.
Also, Frozen, I see no report button on the left side. Or at all. I've never had to/wanted to use it (maybe on one post), but that's always mystified me about this site. Where is it?
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