[WIP] CTF_Icefield

Tinker

aa
Oct 30, 2008
672
334
I don't get why you insist on making a 32-player map (unless you're making it for servers like 2f2f and other spamfest-instant respawn servers) but it looks nice visually. Props to Ace for making the textures..

This. Why make something based on 32 people? 32 people will always be rather crowded, and I'd prefer to have a map play well on a 24-player maximum server and not being totally empty at something "small" like 7v7.
 

laghlagh

L6: Sharp Member
Jul 15, 2008
389
53
Incredible! the rock texture looks better, but it's still over-contrasted IMo.
 

drp

aa
Oct 25, 2007
2,273
2,628
shouldnt this ptf, instead of ctf?
 

drp

aa
Oct 25, 2007
2,273
2,628
i dont think hes making this cater to 32, but to play well with 32 man servers.
 

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
1,325
pepper's right. I wasn't going to address that concern, but here's the thing. 32 player maps scale well down to 24 and lower. 24 player maps do not scale well up to 32 players. This map, I promise, will be an excellent comp map. The entire middle area is full of height variation, and since both teams clash with their intel carriers, it's important for all 6 to stick together while seeking out the opponents' carrier. I test with 32 because it's far more rigorous and displays design flaws faster than 24 player playtests do; it's very easy to tell when a sentry location is OP in a 32p pub. 8 more players means 8 more people to find bugs and clipping issues. I get more raw data from the larger playtests. This says nothing about how I view smaller games. I'm committed to making this map fun for all game sizes, even though one of my design criteria was to make a 2fort that doesn't jumble together so tightly in the middle and provide problems with 32p servers. Larger spaces does not mean "empty map"; it's about how you direct player flow. Although the middle's larger than 2fort, respawn times still dictate that players will meet directly in the center, and then once that initial fight is over, the next wave should spawn right when the "victors" in the center have moved on to enterng the capture zone area, whch takes about 8-10 seconds to regroup, get health etc; respawnwavetime s 6 seconds, so respawners'll come in between 6-12 seconds to intercept.

Sidenote: 2f2f has no respawn reduction except on gimmick maps like hall of death.
 
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uma plata

L6: Sharp Member
Jan 20, 2009
294
93
I don't think the play areas are scaled much different than GPit or Well, and those play fine with 6v6 and up
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
pepper's right. I wasn't going to address that concern, but here's the thing. 32 player maps scale well down to 24 and lower. 24 player maps do not scale well up to 32 players. This map, I promise, will be an excellent comp map. The entire middle area is full of height variation, and since both teams clash with their intel carriers, it's important for all 6 to stick together while seeking out the opponents' carrier. I test with 32 because it's far more rigorous and displays design flaws faster than 24 player playtests do; it's very easy to tell when a sentry location is OP in a 32p pub. 8 more players means 8 more people to find bugs and clipping issues. I get more raw data from the larger playtests. This says nothing about how I view smaller games. I'm committed to making this map fun for all game sizes, even though one of my design criteria was to make a 2fort that doesn't jumble together so tightly in the middle and provide problems with 32p servers. Larger spaces does not mean "empty map"; it's about how you direct player flow. Although the middle's larger than 2fort, respawn times still dictate that players will meet directly in the center, and then once that initial fight is over, the next wave should spawn right when the "victors" in the center have moved on to enterng the capture zone area, whch takes about 8-10 seconds to regroup, get health etc; respawnwavetime s 6 seconds, so respawners'll come in between 6-12 seconds to intercept.

Sidenote: 2f2f has no respawn reduction except on gimmick maps like hall of death.

Be warned: 32 player games can also affect balance issues. It might mean 8 more idiots to run straight at a sentry, or 8 more people to crowd one area that might not be crowded in a 24-player game, causing you to modify health positions. 32-player games shouldn't be catered to at all, because they can alter gameplay significantly (32-player dustbowl is HORRIBLE), but 24-player games can play well with 32-players occasionally. It's very difficult to suit different amounts of people (Valve maps like Granary and Well accomplish this with ease) but 24-players is optimal IMO.
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
I'm smart enough to judge what needs to be changed not based on simple observation but a variety of factors. I'm wondering when this thread will start discussing actual problems with the map instead of poking at the mapmaker's process.

Most of us are just postulating here, actually. I haven't seen a server run this map, ever.
 

Rexy

The Kwisatz Haderach
aa
Dec 22, 2008
1,798
2,533
I'm smart enough to judge what needs to be changed not based on simple observation but a variety of factors. I'm wondering when this thread will start discussing actual problems with the map instead of poking at the mapmaker's process.



Can I thank twice?

You know what this reminds me of? Too many people in the kitchen.
 
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PMAvers

L6: Sharp Member
Jan 29, 2008
389
142
Actually, I've seen it pop up on 2f2f before (although it was a newer build than what's been posted here). The server was full, though, so I didn't get a chance to try it.

Is there a new version coming down the pike soon, or should I just go with the most recently posted one for playtesting on my server?
 

drunkie

L1: Registered
Jul 21, 2008
39
10
http://www.thetwistednetwork.net/

These guys run a Saturday Night Special thing that starts at midnight. They play a lot of custom maps on it and are always looking for new ones. I've had my map tested on it. It's a good fun community with a good caliber of players. I'm sured they'd love to try this map on Saturday :D
 

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
1,325
I'd love for them to try the map, however I'm hard at work on _b1 so I'm unsure whether to pursue servers to run this at the moment. I'd also like to wait for the companion piece that Acegikmo's working on. However if anyone knows any comp league runners etc, maybe make them aware of this for me? I'd really like to make this a competitive map as well as a fun pub map.
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
I'd love for them to try the map, however I'm hard at work on _b1 so I'm unsure whether to pursue servers to run this at the moment. I'd also like to wait for the companion piece that Acegikmo's working on. However if anyone knows any comp league runners etc, maybe make them aware of this for me? I'd really like to make this a competitive map as well as a fun pub map.

Competitive players absolutely hate ctf maps, unless the map is ctf_turbine and the players are European (in which case they'll just barely give the map some playtime).
 

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
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As I gather, they hate CTF due to spawn points ahead of the flag, not enough height variation, not enough large spaces, and just because retrieving flag is boring. I hope to correct all these :)
Edit: If you have suggestions for ways to pull in the comp crowd, I'd love to at least field them.
 
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drunkie

L1: Registered
Jul 21, 2008
39
10
Ya competitive players have always loved CTF. The things they hate are the official valve maps. 2fort takes way to long to get in and out of the base. Turbine is just a uninspired layout. Not sure I here them saying that retrieving a flag is boring but who knows (hopefully not or my map is in trouble :p)

When it comes to mapping for the competition players, and this is without seeing your map played, the snipers will become more of a issue. Would really need to do 6v6 tests with a league quality sniper to fine tune your cover and sight lines. If a sniper is to dominate on a map, I think the competitive scene might shy away from it.

As for competetive leagues I would look at STA and UGC they run custom maps in their league.

STA runs 6v6 - 8v8 - Highlander http://base.sta-league.org/tf2/
UGC runs 7v7 http://www.ugcleague.com/home_tf28.cfm
 
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