[WIP] CTF_Icefield
- Thread starter MangyCarface
- Start date
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Footprints/fog from breath are probably effects that aren't going to be possible. We will however be faithfully recreating a snowy version of TF2's theme, with RED being rickety cottages, snow-covered buildings gasping smoke from their askew chimneys, and BLU buildings metallic and concrete, freezerburn evident on their faces, smog pumping out of the various pipes in the background...
It'll be good, even great. But don't expect us to make miracles like snowprints and breath-fog happen...
theydidntnameme,
You bring up a valid point. However, I contend that this is one of those situations where the game design is impeding on map design. The game was designed with only one CTF map in mind- 2fort, whose balconies are relatively close. Therefore, the 2-sticky jump ability of the demoman wasn't an issue when carrying the flag. However, you can even see on ctf_well what a disaster it can be- a demoman can fly over the entire middle, negating any battles there.
If I were to physically disable the demoman with an overpass, the map would immediately suffer visually. Such a barrier would be extremely hard to explain and most likely very ugly. I'm still open to such a solution, but here are the properties of my current one:
-Subtle. You can't feel it very much. It makes you miss the jump by maybe 256 units.
-Only affects players above a normal rocket jump level. Single sticky jumps, horizontally, won't feel the effect.
I may end up creating a custom sign or material to indicate that there's a gust of wind or something, or maybe it's due to the eventual snowfall that will be precipitating downwards, but I think it's a fair solution to make the gameplay better for the 8 other classes that will never feel the affect.
Anyway, keep the comments rolling guys. Especially check out the interior layout. I listened closely to Mr. Casali's advice of "limiting the number of playable areas" so that layout is immediately more intuitive. There is 1 main room with two levels, 2 side rooms, and a few hallways. There are 3 outside areas, with the middle having a bit more complexity. I think you'll also find each route has its own advantages- the right lower entrance for pyros and spies, the top left for soldiers and demos, the upper right and lower left for heavies and their medics. Similarly, the exits into the capture point areas have different advantages; A demoman can remove sentries from the upper left's window, a pyro can flank from the bottom right, a soldier can destroy sentries from upper right with the longer sightlines, and the middle is a good heavy charge zone.
It'll be good, even great. But don't expect us to make miracles like snowprints and breath-fog happen...
theydidntnameme,
You bring up a valid point. However, I contend that this is one of those situations where the game design is impeding on map design. The game was designed with only one CTF map in mind- 2fort, whose balconies are relatively close. Therefore, the 2-sticky jump ability of the demoman wasn't an issue when carrying the flag. However, you can even see on ctf_well what a disaster it can be- a demoman can fly over the entire middle, negating any battles there.
If I were to physically disable the demoman with an overpass, the map would immediately suffer visually. Such a barrier would be extremely hard to explain and most likely very ugly. I'm still open to such a solution, but here are the properties of my current one:
-Subtle. You can't feel it very much. It makes you miss the jump by maybe 256 units.
-Only affects players above a normal rocket jump level. Single sticky jumps, horizontally, won't feel the effect.
I may end up creating a custom sign or material to indicate that there's a gust of wind or something, or maybe it's due to the eventual snowfall that will be precipitating downwards, but I think it's a fair solution to make the gameplay better for the 8 other classes that will never feel the affect.
Anyway, keep the comments rolling guys. Especially check out the interior layout. I listened closely to Mr. Casali's advice of "limiting the number of playable areas" so that layout is immediately more intuitive. There is 1 main room with two levels, 2 side rooms, and a few hallways. There are 3 outside areas, with the middle having a bit more complexity. I think you'll also find each route has its own advantages- the right lower entrance for pyros and spies, the top left for soldiers and demos, the upper right and lower left for heavies and their medics. Similarly, the exits into the capture point areas have different advantages; A demoman can remove sentries from the upper left's window, a pyro can flank from the bottom right, a soldier can destroy sentries from upper right with the longer sightlines, and the middle is a good heavy charge zone.
Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 455
- 133
Again, this only shows more proof that you haven't really played a ctf map. The point of ctf gameplay is to return it to your base fast enough, and limiting that ability is absurd. Here is a video of a quite brilliant tactic: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UYNazYFFsc"]YouTube - Team Fortress 2 sticky bomb trick[/ame]
While the normal player won't accomplish this every day, limiting the ability to jump the intel over a map is absurd and only hurts the players who have the skill to do it. Then again, I'm a big old faggot and you shouldn't listen to my advice, so go ahead and make the map as 32-player, instant-spawn friendly as possible.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Oh man!!! That is such a fun tactic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 455
- 133
Then why limit the ability to sticky jump? Sticky jumping and rocket jumping gives demos and soldiers a lot of mobility, and just limiting it for the reason that they might decide to jump across with the intel is fucking pointless.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Hey Cerious, did you download the map? Did you try sticky jumping? Would you have noticed had I not specifically mentioned it? 32 player server, not a single person complained nor even noticed a difference.
Acegikmo
aa
- Jan 31, 2008
- 555
- 1,482
"2 new community maps by Acegikmo and Mangy Carface"?
I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they did
Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 455
- 133
Yes, I have downloaded the map, so I know what I'm talking about. When I jump, as I reach the peak of the jump my screen starts to shake a little and I fall faster than normal, like gravity is pulling me down. It's distracting and retarded.
It would be better than if they do it just before !
About stickyjumping: The wind/push does not stop a demoman using 2 stickies. It's easy to fly across the map and land just next to a 100% healthpack. Making the jump cost nothing (health wise). The attacker will only be vulnerable from the moment he touches ground -> grabbing health. And I think the odds of sucess is quite high.
I recorded some demos showing the stickyjumping I just explained. But just as I was about to upload them I figured they were unnecessary and not very interesting. (If someone really wants them then... pm?)
About other:
Remove the slippery effect entierly, it's a fun idea but not a good one imo.
I recorded some demos showing the stickyjumping I just explained. But just as I was about to upload them I figured they were unnecessary and not very interesting. (If someone really wants them then... pm?)
About other:
Remove the slippery effect entierly, it's a fun idea but not a good one imo.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Uh, ravidge, you were playing A1... the feature wasn't in there... Try it again now.
Slippery effect has been gone since A2.
Slippery effect has been gone since A2.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Hrm... interesting. I'll need a demo, as I can't seem to get it to happen.
http://213.115.191.55/~ravidge/icefield-demoman.zip
edit: Lowering the skybox a little would make it a lot harder, esp. jump1 and 3. It won't stop it but only really skilled demoman players would be able to pull it off continuisly. The reward of 100% health is also a factor to why this works, maybe switch it to a medium one?
edit: Lowering the skybox a little would make it a lot harder, esp. jump1 and 3. It won't stop it but only really skilled demoman players would be able to pull it off continuisly. The reward of 100% health is also a factor to why this works, maybe switch it to a medium one?
Last edited:
Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 455
- 133
Problem here is that a medium health kit still won't stop demos from just jumping all the way over the map. You should have no health kit at all, to make it tougher for players to just jump across. Currently, I can do the same thing you do in your jumps, make it to the health kit (medium) which will give me above 100 health, and do another one-sticky jump all the way to the cap point, at which I kill myself and rinse and repeat. Remove the push effect, remove/relocate the health pack will solve most of the problems.