[WIP] ctf_Aerospace

[crazychicken]

better than making a map that will never be played. the way i see it very few people are actually offering any worthwile feedback, they are just creaming over your very impressive plane models. The cave doesnt look good, the textures dont blend they are too big and not detailed and random bottomless pits arent conducive to gameplay and the water loosk awful. im sorry if i sound harsh but i think you need to hear an opinion from someone who isnt a sycophant and you have more tha enough talent to hopefuly not take criticism the wrong way adn get offended. the planes are incredible no doubt about that i want to buy a real life model of the tri plane its taht good but the map itself isnt that big and it doesnt make much sense, a mining tunnel by blue to attack red or 2 fortified walls would make more sense than a random cave complex.

 

[Tigger]

I like what you've done with the blue hanger. It really opens it up for combat and access. I'm looking forward to playing the next version.

 

[MangyCarface]

i havent tried this yet i forgot about it but will upoad it to my server and see how it goes

only thing i will say is that the most popular map modes in tf2 are by far pl or cp like dustbowl. ctf can be boring and 5 cp maps no matter how well they are made are unimaginative and dull.

I dont know how it plays as i havent tried it yet and will reply later but if you can make it a pl map then it will be very popular. a lot of mappers aim to make maps for or listen too much to league players who are only interested in maps for leagueplay. maps like studio and redstone might be fine for league play and they might look amazing but they are boring as hell. I see it is a mirror map which makes it much less interesting than a unique playing area like goldrush, personally i would make it 2 or 3 stages of a pl map. mirror maps are dull

I mean having blue attack from the cave having landed secretly with their planes etc to attack the red airfield would be far far more enjoyable. They could then proceed through 3 stages pushing the nuke to destroy reds hangar int he final cp. Taht would be awesome, at the moment no matter how good you make it look I cant see it being very fun

What?

You can't level gameplay criticism if you haven't played the map. 2fort gets played to shit on pubs. Mirror maps may be dull to you but the point of mapping is to flesh out all the existing map types. I don't want to get into a flamewar, but a WIP thread deserves constructive criticism that does not amount to "change the gameplay type completely." What you're asking for with the payload changes is not a simple change, that's a different map. Constructive criticism, even if you think it's helping, fails to be constructive when you try to override the mapper's entire design.

To that note:
The hangar is a definite improvement because it gives more of a "base" like feel to each side. But since they're so much bigger, you should tighten the gameplay around the hangars so that there's more emphasis on fighting inside rather than outside. Perhaps even change the entrances to the cave so that they open out inside the hangars. With some tweaking you should get a good cs_assault feeling going. The last version of the map didn't really have enough chokepoints because of the more "open" gameplay style around the base. Making a clear distinction between the inside and outside areas should hint to attackers proper rally points.
Style wise, the extra rafters and everything make the base a lot better looking. If anything I'd say try to avoid using those props that are just sheet metal on an angle. They're a bit too big to fit where you have them. Perhaps using brushwork to create a lattice of tiny supports/panels of metal would have the same gameplay effect but look better.
I would suggest adding in some height variance and changing up the textures in order to differentiate more between the inside/outside of the hangar. Consider using that black concrete texture for areas that the plane would roll on and keeping the grey concrete for the rest of it; also, more natural materials around the base; anything that more clearly marks the distinction between inside and outside. As usual these latest changes are very very nice; hope any suggestions I make can help.

 

[ChronoTriggerFan]

For the 5th and 6th picture, the walls made out of roof shackles really don't look to good. But everything else looks wonderful. I'm really liking the inside of the hangar now.

 

[Arhurt]

Hangar looks sick

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! I really liked the way it turned out, just as I had pictured it. There is some detail that can only be seen when up-close, but that will have to wait for the gameday right?

hopefuly not take criticism the wrong way adn get offended

Don't worry about that, I'm pretty ok with your comments, even if I respectufully disagree with some

ctf can be boring

I'm making my best to not make this map a different CTF. One of my goals is to make as many routes to the flag as possible, so that making it there is not so much of a problem as getting out of the base. I belive that setting up defenses to stop the attackers from coming inside of the base is better than sitting on top of the flag itself, especially once the flag has been dropped someplace outside and all the tight defense set up for it is lost.

I guess that only playtesting will prove it good or broken.

The cave doesnt look good

It doesn't seem like the general consensus on the cave. I'm working on it to make it prettier tough, I have some ideas that I belive will take it to the next level.

random bottomless pits arent conducive to gameplay

I am aware the pits are a problem. The main issue was that they where hard to see, the cave was really dark because I had my monitor all bright. I have fixed it now. I'm also making somespecial changes so that they are more easily seen. As for why they kill you, I guess you will see why on the next version of the map to be released

the water loosk awful

I am quite happy with the water as it looks very cartoony, a midpoint between TF2, Guitar Hero and Okami scenery effects. I am working on some SFX to make it more belivable, likea normal map and some refractions on it, but the style is probably set unless there is a major rebellion against it and people show up on my doorstep with pithforks and torches.

I want to buy a real life model of the tri plane

I might just send it to some toy manufacturers, who knows?

random cave complex

Crysis = nosense then?

Anyway, looks amazing, better than most custom maps, especially for one with no deserty cliffs in sight. Kind of confused as to what logic the vents follow on that roof though.

Thanks! Yes I'm going out of my way to make it set on a moutain with forest. I want to get all the gameplay area done so I can work on the all the prettiness that is goes around it.
About the vents, I'm not happy about those as well, I need to have them there because I want to divide the roof, gameplay-wise, in two sections, so I need some big vents on top of it. I guess it's those angled parts that make it look wrong. I guess the guy who made those must be a n00b at these things

I like what you've done with the blue hanger. It really opens it up for combat and access. I'm looking forward to playing the next version.

Thanks! Yes I hope that the new Hangar opens up a lot of new gameplay. I can't wait for the next gameday as well, I hope I can finish the red hangar in time.

constructive criticism that does not amount to "change the gameplay type completely."

I agree that the payload idea would need a totally new map. Perhaps for a future project, but definately not for this one. Not only am I learning as I go, ctf is just easier to implement. Put down two flags and two cap points and you are done.
I have not yet discarded the idea of making it a cp map with 3 control points, maybe 4. But I dolike ctf better. I jus get so much of an adrenaline rush when I have the flag and am running back to my base that I don't get when capturing a point.
I also belive that many people don't liking ctf is a fault of the maps, not the format.

The hangar is a definite improvement

Thanks, yes it has opened up the gameplay a lot, belive me there are so many different routes to the flag now that I think it will rock!

The last version of the map didn't really have enough chokepoints

I am strongly considering closing off the area between the two office buildings and making the cave a big chokepoint. It still has some variation as you can go rough the big area with thewater or you could go trough the small tunnel on the side.

For the 5th and 6th picture, the walls made out of roof shackles really don't look to good. But everything else looks wonderful. I'm really liking the inside of the hangar now.

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. I kid of liked that texture, not aware that it is used for ceiling though. What other texture would you suggest for the hangar walls?

Anyway, I'm visiting my parents this weekend and will be back by monday. I'm running into a little bit of a problem now with compile times, especially in the cave, and I belive it has to do with the visleafs division. As the cave is a whole displacement, and really open, it must not be optimally divided. But I'm having trouble coming up with the best method to solve this. As it stands now, the cave is a big displacement enshrined by square brusheswith nodraw or toolsblack texture that loosely follow it's contour. Here are a couple hammer screenies of the area (with the props hidden)

Hangar looks sick

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! I really liked the way it turned out, just as I had pictured it. There is some detail that can only be seen when up-close, but that will have to wait for the gameday right?

hopefuly not take criticism the wrong way adn get offended

Don't worry about that, I'm pretty ok with your comments, even if I respectufully disagree with some

ctf can be boring

I'm making my best to not make this map a different CTF. One of my goals is to make as many routes to the flag as possible, so that making it there is not so much of a problem as getting out of the base. I belive that setting up defenses to stop the attackers from coming inside of the base is better than sitting on top of the flag itself, especially once the flag has been dropped someplace outside and all the tight defense set up for it is lost.

I guess that only playtesting will prove it good or broken.

The cave doesnt look good

It doesn't seem like the general consensus on the cave. I'm working on it to make it prettier tough, I have some ideas that I belive will take it to the next level.

random bottomless pits arent conducive to gameplay

I am aware the pits are a problem. The main issue was that they where hard to see, the cave was really dark because I had my monitor all bright. I have fixed it now. I'm also making somespecial changes so that they are more easily seen. As for why they kill you, I guess you will see why on the next version of the map to be released

the water loosk awful

I am quite happy with the water as it looks very cartoony, a midpoint between TF2, Guitar Hero and Okami scenery effects. I am working on some SFX to make it more belivable, likea normal map and some refractions on it, but the style is probably set unless there is a major rebellion against it and people show up on my doorstep with pithforks and torches.

I want to buy a real life model of the tri plane

I might just send it to some toy manufacturers, who knows?

random cave complex

Crysis = nosense then?

Anyway, looks amazing, better than most custom maps, especially for one with no deserty cliffs in sight. Kind of confused as to what logic the vents follow on that roof though.

Thanks! Yes I'm going out of my way to make it set on a moutain with forest. I want to get all the gameplay area done so I can work on the all the prettiness that is goes around it.
About the vents, I'm not happy about those as well, I need to have them there because I want to divide the roof, gameplay-wise, in two sections, so I need some big vents on top of it. I guess it's those angled parts that make it look wrong. I guess the guy who made those must be a n00b at these things

I like what you've done with the blue hanger. It really opens it up for combat and access. I'm looking forward to playing the next version.

Thanks! Yes I hope that the new Hangar opens up a lot of new gameplay. I can't wait for the next gameday as well, I hope I can finish the red hangar in time.

 

[Arhurt]

The following errors occurred with your submission:

1. The text that you have entered is too long (17082 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.

lol I break the forumz!

Here's the rest of my reply:

constructive criticism that does not amount to "change the gameplay type completely."

I agree that the payload idea would need a totally new map. Perhaps for a future project, but definately not for this one. Not only am I learning as I go, ctf is just easier to implement. Put down two flags and two cap points and you are done.
I have not yet discarded the idea of making it a cp map with 3 control points, maybe 4. But I dolike ctf better. I jus get so much of an adrenaline rush when I have the flag and am running back to my base that I don't get when capturing a point.
I also belive that many people don't liking ctf is a fault of the maps, not the format.

The hangar is a definite improvement

Thanks, yes it has opened up the gameplay a lot, belive me there are so many different routes to the flag now that I think it will rock!

The last version of the map didn't really have enough chokepoints

I am strongly considering closing off the area between the two office buildings and making the cave a big chokepoint. It still has some variation as you can go rough the big area with thewater or you could go trough the small tunnel on the side.

For the 5th and 6th picture, the walls made out of roof shackles really don't look to good. But everything else looks wonderful. I'm really liking the inside of the hangar now.

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. I kid of liked that texture, not aware that it is used for ceiling though. What other texture would you suggest for the hangar walls?

Anyway, I'm visiting my parents this weekend and will be back by monday. I'm running into a little bit of a problem now with compile times, especially in the cave, and I belive it has to do with the visleafs division. As the cave is a whole displacement, and really open, it must not be optimally divided. But I'm having trouble coming up with the best method to solve this. As it stands now, the cave is a big displacement enshrined by square brusheswith nodraw or toolsblack texture that loosely follow it's contour. Here are a couple hammer screenies of the area (with the props hidden)

My question is how would I go about placing my Hintbrushes on it?


Thanks once more for all your praise and feedback guys, I'm really happy abouthow it's shaping up! :thumbup1:

 

[Sgt Frag]

It's looking pretty cool, hard to see what's going on in that cave in any of those shots.

I would make this map how YOU want. I see alot of opinions on what is better gameplay, what is more popular, etc... One thing I've learned with other games I've modded for is you can never please everyone.

Someone said that CTF maps and 5CP maps and symmetrical maps are boring. Funny that most of the maps mentioned i like, alot. That person also said goldrush is more popular/fun, well it is newer and thus 'fresh' but IMO not the best gameplay or best Valve map. I like a PL map once in awhile but not my fav type. So if you make this PL I'll be pissed

 

[MangyCarface]

Optimizing the cave: Not a lot of options. What you've done is as good as it's gonna get. You need to areaportal off all the entrances. Keep your prop count low and that area will be fine.
I believe your compile time problem is not cave-related. Did you test this via cordons? If it is definitely the cave we'll try to look at that.
I think you might have just forgotten to turn all your extra brushwork in the hangar into func_details. This is the number one source of long compile times.

I still like your outside areas. Try to keep them somehow? It's more fun intercepting the flag outside of the cave. Perhaps you could change it around so that the current outside is on top of the cave or something.

 

[ChronoTriggerFan]

For the sides of the hangar, If you still want to keep the texture, you should rotate it 90 degrees, and scale it down some, so that it looks similar to the door.

 

[Arhurt]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I've just uploaded a non-functional version of the map. You can get it here: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=376

By non-functional I mean there is only one teamspawn, no playerclips or capzones. I'm looking for specific feedback on the following:

Cave lightning: Is it enough now? I'm working on a lightstick props to light-up the pick-ups there, so I'm more concerned about the general area lightning.

Hangars layout: Just trying to figure out if there is any problem, but I guess it opens up for a lot of possibilities.

Hangar lightning: Same as the cave, and I still need to sort out some wrongly lit props.

The red hangar may have some misaligned and odd placed props as I just copy and pasted the blue one and then flipped it, causing all sorts of crazyness. I'm working on a model for the roof and hangar doors, as well as the support for the wooden boards.

And out of those specific points, if you'd like to comment on anything else, I'll be more than happy!

Thanks again for playin on gameday, it was a shame for me to miss it.

 

[Arhurt]

A proof of concept for the bulk of the forest. I'm going to use displacements to make the tree copes, and have 3 or 4 custom tree models to add variety.

What do you guys think?

 

[DJive]

I'm never disappointed when i see this thread updated =)

 

[AWESOME-O]

I'm never disappointed when i see this thread updated =)

ditto!

 

[ChronoTriggerFan]

I think kick ass. The grass and waterfall don't look out of place now with the trees. Keep up this awesome work

 

[Ace]

ditto!

titto! :unsure:

 

[Arhurt]

Unfortunately, I don't have a new version working for this gameday, and with all the changes to the hangar, the old version really doesn't work anymore.

But fortunately, I have some screenies to share (disclaimer, There are problems with the lightning, especially on the red base)

I need now to start doing some minor optimization, as I can feel the FPS drop when standing in one base's corner looking towards the other. I bet the engine is rendering the whole forest, even tough you can't see it

I decided to use models for the forest because well, they just look good.

Extra points for spotting the HL:2 model in there. (it's just a placeholder until I get my own)

 

[drp]

Unfortunately, I don't have a new version working for this gameday, and with all the changes to the hangar, the old version really doesn't work anymore.

But fortunately, I have some screenies to share (disclaimer, There are problems with the lightning, especially on the red base.

I need now to start doing some minor optimization, as I can feel the FPS drop when standing in one base's corner looking towards the other. I bet the engine is rendering the whole forest, even tough you can't see it

I decided to use models for the forest because well, they just look good.

Extra points for spotting the HL:2 model in there. (it's just a placeholder until I get my own)

the horizontal tree in the first pic looks like a hl2 model

but seriously, this looks amazing.
do you have an estimated time to completion?

 

[AWESOME-O]

the horizontal tree in the first pic looks like a hl2 model

Still doesn't feel outplaced orso.

 

[Arhurt]

the horizontal tree in the first pic looks like a hl2 model

You get 100 bonus points.

but seriously, this looks amazing.
do you have an estimated time to completion?

Thanks a lot, I plan to go Beta in two to three weeks, when I have every element placed down and somewhat pretty. From there I plan on spending one to two months tuning it down to perfection, and then release a final version along with some bonus material.

 

[Ace]

Wow!

btw, how did you make the trees? are they custom models or something else.
anyway i hope you are going to release all the custom textures etc that you have used, between this and meridian I finallly think there are a decent set of "green" textures.