[WIP] ctf_Aerospace

[Gadget]

what light_env and tonemap_controller settings did you use? The white surfaces still look a little too bright to me. The texture details get lost because of the light.

For the forest and trees it might help to make them less noisy and detailed. I'm sure you will come up with something good.

 

[Arhurt]

I'm really having a hard time finding the right tonemap settings.The PC I'm currently in not only uses a dial-up connection, but it won't run TF2 and Hammer so I'll only be able to answer your question on monday.

I've already changed the tree materials a little bit, I will definately give it another try before discarding them overLumberyard models.

At one point I made them with less "foliage alpha", as in with less holes to simulate leafs. They looked good, but the tree copes blocked the line of sight from snipers in the area between the two bases. Mind you they only block sight, but bullets still go trough, so a good sniper can predict your movement and hit you trough the foliage. But I figured it would only be the very dood ones that would do so, and added back the "Alpha Foliage". I'll make a few experiments next week and post here so yu guys can help me decide.

 

[Gadget]

that's the way it should be done :thumbsup: try different things and then decide what's the best. For the trees you could add some invisible walls to block the bullets.

For the tonemap_controller settings: isn't this the sky from hydro? Might want to copy the values from its logic_auto.

 

[Username]

Just out of curiosity, how many job offers from valve have you gotten? Seriously, this is on-par with the professional level of detail, and they have multitudes of people working on maps.

 

[Arhurt]

Just out of curiosity, how many job offers from valve have you gotten? Seriously, this is on-par with the professional level of detail, and they have multitudes of people working on maps.

Heh thanks! I haven't recieved any job offers or freelance work offers, but then I haven't really put this map out in the open.

I'm currently placing the alpine forest props in the map to replace my jungle ones as I think it will look better. I'll also make an arena map with the jungle enviroment this week so that all the work that went on it is not wasted.

The map already looks a lot better with the alpine stuff. I'll be updating later today or tomorrow hopefully

 

[ColdFire]

Can't wait to get your new alpha. It'll be immediatly on my TF2 servers.

 

[Cerious]

Maybe you can put the rocks from Lumberyard into the cave? I'd think it would look much better.

 

[Arhurt]

Well then it is done, the new alpine props from Valve are perfect for the map.

The change is still not complete, the skybox needs a lot more detail now because frankly, the Alpine skybox is quite siple and works for a small map such as Lumberyard, but is a little repetitive for a large one.

But overhall I belive that the Alpine look fits the map much better. Also make sure to check the soundscapes I've created. Nothing fancy but once I get the planes to fly around it will add so much atmosphere!

I belive this is the final Alpha version, all that is left now is minor tweaking to gameplay and adding details until I'm happy with it.

And now a compile log info:

vbsp
27 seconds elapsed



vvis
Total clusters visible: 69083
Average clusters visible: 106
6 seconds elapsed



vrad
10 minutes, 11 seconds elapsed



vrad HDR
10 minutes, 24 seconds elapsed




Object names       Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness 
------------       ---------------  ---------------  -------- 
models                  46/1024         2208/49152    ( 4.5%) 
brushes               3345/8192        40140/98304    (40.8%) 
brushsides           22205/65536      177640/524288   (33.9%) 
planes                9628/65536      192560/1310720  (14.7%) 
vertexes             25058/65536      300696/786432   (38.2%) 
nodes                 2353/65536       75296/2097152  ( 3.6%) 
texinfos              3813/12288      274536/884736   (31.0%) 
texdata                182/2048         5824/65536    ( 8.9%) 
dispinfos              267/0           46992/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_verts           11931/0          238620/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_tris            17856/0           35712/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_lmsamples     2346244/0         2346244/0        ( 0.0%) 
faces                13868/65536      776608/3670016  (21.2%) 
hdr faces            13868/65536      776608/3670016  (21.2%) 
origfaces            10739/65536      601384/3670016  (16.4%) 
leaves                2400/65536       76800/2097152  ( 3.7%) 
leaffaces            17110/65536       34220/131072   (26.1%) 
leafbrushes           5968/65536       11936/131072   ( 9.1%) 
areas                    6/256            48/2048     ( 2.3%) 
surfedges           114237/512000     456948/2048000  (22.3%) 
edges                73974/256000     295896/1024000  (28.9%) 
LDR worldlights        561/8192        49368/720896   ( 6.8%) 
HDR worldlights        561/8192        49368/720896   ( 6.8%) 
leafwaterdata            0/32768           0/393216   ( 0.0%) 
waterstrips           1953/32768       19530/327680   ( 6.0%) 
waterverts               0/65536           0/786432   ( 0.0%) 
waterindices         38496/65536       76992/131072   (58.7%) 
cubemapsamples          99/1024         1584/16384    ( 9.7%) 
overlays               200/512         70400/180224   (39.1%) 
LDR lightdata         [variable]    20361932/0        ( 0.0%) 
HDR lightdata         [variable]    20361932/0        ( 0.0%) 
visdata               [variable]       62436/16777216 ( 0.4%) 
entdata               [variable]      170668/393216   (43.4%) 
LDR ambient table     2400/65536        9600/262144   ( 3.7%) 
HDR ambient table     2400/65536        9600/262144   ( 3.7%) 
LDR leaf ambient     11826/65536      331128/1835008  (18.0%) 
HDR leaf ambient     11841/65536      331548/1835008  (18.1%) 
occluders                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
occluder polygons        0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
occluder vert ind        0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
detail props          [variable]           1/139096   ( 0.0%) 
dtl prp lght          [variable]           1/4        (25.0%) 
HDR dtl prp lght      [variable]           1/4        (25.0%) 
static props          [variable]           1/106028   ( 0.0%) 
pakfile               [variable]       24066/0        ( 0.0%) 
physics               [variable]     1251609/4194304  (29.8%) 
physics terrain       [variable]       66596/1048576  ( 6.4%)

And the screenshots:












I'm uploading the map and it should be availabe soon

Thanks all.

 

[Username]

Looks great. I can't wait to see this thing in action. One question: Do the pine trees have their own collision models, or did you have to make your own? And on that note, do the pine needles block bullets?
Either way, I'm ready to try this and see how the gameplay works out.

 

[Cerious]

My god, it looks amazing. The minute you upload it I'm downloading it and looking through it. The amount of work you've done and the design is superb.

EDIT: OK, I looked through the map, here are my criticisms:

Pros: Balanced, very unique in terms of art, stunning. The sounds are great, everything feels balanced.

Cons: Just a few nitpicks. There are two models at the middle section that have no texture and are purplish (bushes, they are very easy to spot) and one model in the skybox that is purple too. Fix those.
There aren't enough signs anywhere, and not arrows. The signs that say intelligence are pretty much no where to be found unless you are very, very near it. There are also no signs that say stuff like Battlements. Add some of these to their respective locations and you will be fine.
The parts connecting the hangars to the middle (with the stairway going up) are too plain. Put a prop or something, and maybe a battlements sign.
In the intel room, there are some platforms that are just that, platforms. Put some handrails to make it look better.
The ramps in the basement are way too steep, make it a little shallower (or just make them stairs).
Some objects in this map (the hangar roofs, some of the runway, some vents) have blinding lights. It feels so unnatural and looks horrible.
Its also pretty hard to notice, but some of the skybox platform that continues the runway just collides with the forest part of the skybox, making it look like it goes into the forest, with no barrier. Sorry if it sounds confusing.

 

[Arhurt]

Thanks guys, your feedback is, as usua, of imensurable help.

I won't be able to fix any of these for another release before saturday tough as I'm busy with another project for the weekend, but the next release, that should be the first Beta and be published on many sites well advertised, should have them fixed.

A couple things pointed on other forums I post:

• Remove the tree models shadows and make them by hand with nodraw.
• Rework the control towers (indeed they are just placeholders)

Now for your concerns:

One question: Do the pine trees have their own collision models, or did you have to make your own? And on that note, do the pine needles block bullets?

They sadly do not have collision models so I have created two brushes for them: one is a cylindrical playerclip that encopases the main body of the tree, and the second is a nodraw brush inside the model, but a little smaller so that bullets and rockets can pass trough the leaves, but not the main trunk. Also you can hide sticky bombs in the trees.

There are two models at the middle section that have no texture and are purplish and one model in the skybox that is purple too

I thought I had removed them all. I've already spotted them and took them out. They are jungle remnants.

The parts connecting the hangars to the middle (with the stairway going up) are too plain. Put a prop or something, and maybe a battlements sign.

Yeah I haven't detailed those areas yet. Will be fully furnished by beta.

In the intel room, there are some platforms that are just that, platforms. Put some handrails to make it look better.

Thanks, this makes sense. I'll also be making all the brushwork handrails more detailed and replace them with models where it may be needed.

Some objects in this map (the hangar roofs, some of the runway, some vents) have blinding lights. It feels so unnatural and looks horrible.

Yes, I copy/pasted the light enviroment from arena_lumberyard, but I need more tweaking to the HDR because of the large flat white areas.

Its also pretty hard to notice, but some of the skybox platform that continues the runway just collides with the forest part of the skybox, making it look like it goes into the forest, with no barrier. Sorry if it sounds confusing.

I know what you mean. I'll have to be creative about that in order to avoid redoing a major portion of the skybox all over again.

 

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

Remove the tree models shadows and make them by hand with nodraw.

You shouldn't need to do that. Try cordoning off a small part of the map with some trees and the light_environment (C+P it near the trees for this test if necessary), and compile with the settings Youme posted here and the lights file I posted in the same thread. This will use the actual model vertices and alpha textures for the tree shadows.

Now, this will make a full lighting compile take significantly longer, but that's not something you need to do very often, really only just before a release.

 

[Cerious]

Alright then, thanks, I can't wait for the beta.

 

[Username]

So, has the beta been released yet?

 

[Arhurt]

Big update!

I'll be breaking this into several posts since the number of changes and screenshots is considerably large.

This version shown here is a Beta release candidate. That's right, I'll finally move from Alpha and into Beta. What does that mean? I'll soon put the map out on FPSB and advertise it out in as many forums as I can. I have been avoiding exposure of the map so far, and when I reach beta I'll want as much exposure as I can get.

But before that I'm putting this Beta release candidate for gameday so we can hammer down any showstoppers or major bugs. Also this will give me time to properly write a readme thanking and acknowlaging (sp?) everyone who's helped me so far. I also added the TF2Maps.net posters

First off, the overhall changes:

SIGNS! - Yes, now you can't make a turn and not have a sign directing you somewhere. Signs are all over the place and especially the area leding from the spawnrooms to the intel has been made to ensure that players know where their intel is from the very first moment they arrive in.

Lightning - Finally I have reached the perfect sun settings for my map. W00t!

Ok, enough talk, lets comment on some screenies, one area at a time.

First is this overhead view of the map. One thing you can't see here is the cave because it is under the mountain. But then, I just wanted to see how this was done and I'll make a decent overhead view for beta release.

 

[Arhurt]

____________________________________________
Spawnrooms
I had expanded the spawnrooms from the last iteration. I wanted to have a little extra space in the spawnrooms so I can add a map of the map and some other scenery as well as a large wall for forum/community banners and posters that is somehow hidden, but present.

The spawnrooms are basically the same. I added a small area before the ressupply rooms where you can see the big boss office with a large glass window so he can watch his workers punch their cards and come to work. I have changed the intelligence room quite a bit (you'll see) and I didn't want to throw away the nice spyboss table I had done there, so I moved it here.

____________________________________________
Hangars (inside)

Not much changed here in terms of general layout, but I tweaked the lights to give more contrast to the props in the middle of the room, making more clear the division in the passable area that they represent. The signs by the side of the stairs also help to keep the playerflow© fluent.

____________________________________________
Hagars (ceiling)

This area presented problems due to the HDR settings. I found out that for some reason I left an alpha channel on the ceiling texture, and the engine was interpreting it as a specular mask thus making the ceiling highly specular. This problem has been solved and the ceiling became dramatically more defined on both bases. You can alos notice the new details around the red base, that was kind of barren on every one of the past iterations.

I also enlarged the windows in front of the hangar "tower" so attacking players have an easier time getting in the intel room.
____________________________________________
Inner bases (upper level)

This area suffered a major reconstruction with the addition of more ledges and platforms. The raised areas give an attacking scout many ways of accessing the hangar, be it from the floor level, from the second level platforms or on top of the roof. The platform leading around the base should also be a good incertion point for a cloaked spy and possibly a good point for a pyro to drop on top of attackers.

____________________________________________
Inner bases (ground level)

This large open area is crampled from both sides by the hangar ceiling and the ofice buildings, but most classes must walk trough it.

I added some props for cover and strategical movement, such as a few ramps and places that you can crouch and possibly hide from an unsuspecting player. I belive that in many situations this area will be the place for a fallen flag since anyone carrying the flag will have to go past it on the floor level (a scout can make a double jump from the hangar ledge to the platform on the office building, but it's a tricky jump). Since I set the return time of the flag for 2 minutes on my map I belive this will be most likely a stop for every capture (unless it's a very coordinated team capturing).

 

[Arhurt]

____________________________________________
Intel Rooms

Now this is the area I'm most proud of in this update. I made special props for each team so that the intel room in the hangar "tower" is the project schematics rooms. Check and see the new stuff!

This time I timed it and a scout can get from spawn to the enemy intel in roughly 25 seconds. In the same timespan an engineer can get to the intel room and make a level 1 sentry in an optmal position.

____________________________________________
Sewer and underpass

This area had a few props added to provide cover and platforms to change from one level to another. Some more detailing and a tweak on the lights did the job. Alos, every base now has a ressupply locker near the rear entrance to the sewers/underpass so they can easly set a strong defensible position in the sewer.

I also added a full ammo pack so that attacking engineers have a chance to set up an advanced base in this room that is quite strong. Also there are places to set up a hidden teleporter that should remain there unless the defenders are actively looking for it.
I also changed the more angled ramps to stairs.

____________________________________________
Cave

Aside from tweaking the lightning a little more nothing changed here. I just added it so this overview of the map would be very complete.

The cave connects the two sewer/underpasses to the outside yard and office buildings, creating an 8 for the overhall layout of the map. I have removed the metal ramps and lamp fixtures and placed rock formations and an opening in the ceiling to let the daylight shine trough.

____________________________________________
Office buildings

I added a few shacks I copied from Lumberyard to add a little more interesting gameplay options to this area, such as places to hide teleporters and to sneak in as a spy or pyro. The platforms also give snipers three options of sniping. They can stay on the building and strafe trougnt the door at middle level, they can use the lower level for added cover, or they can use the highest platform, that gives the most field of view and angle advantage, at the cost of having close to no cover.

If a sniper misses his target he also has plenty of time to run or prepare to face the foe, since only soldiers and demoman could jump up to his platforms directly, and all other classes have to go inside the building and run back to get to the sniper deck.

____________________________________________
Yard

This area is where lots of fighting will take place. Since I changed my forest props for the Alpine trees from valve I had a feeling that Snipers had too much domination over this area. I added the bridge roof from 2fort to the middle of the yard and with the extra shacks I added they made for a very good playable arena. I also added tons of props that serve as ramps for the upper part of the tunnel.

A crafty engy might realise that he can build a semi-hidden teleporter or sentry gun atop the trees!


____________________________________________

Ok and that's it!

List of things to do to beta: Decent readme file. Map of the level for spawn room.

Well I hope you have enjoyed the update. I'll be packing and prepping a download for tomorrow so you can see all this stuff in first person.

Thanks a lot for the read!

 

[Arhurt]

Forgot to add the compile log:

vbsp.exe - 35 seconds elapsed

vvis.exe - 7 seconds elapsed
Total clusters visible: 67512
Average clusters visible: 105

vrad.exe LDR- 10 minutes, 38 seconds elapsed
vrad.exe HDR- 10 minutes, 46 seconds elapsed

Object names       Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness 
------------       ---------------  ---------------  -------- 
models                  46/1024         2208/49152    ( 4.5%) 
brushes               3860/8192        46320/98304    (47.1%) 
brushsides           25790/65536      206320/524288   (39.4%) 
planes               11538/65536      230760/1310720  (17.6%) 
vertexes             28522/65536      342264/786432   (43.5%) 
nodes                 2366/65536       75712/2097152  ( 3.6%) 
texinfos              4662/12288      335664/884736   (37.9%) 
texdata                210/2048         6720/65536    (10.3%) 
dispinfos              268/0           47168/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_verts           12012/0          240240/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_tris            17984/0           35968/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_lmsamples     2353436/0         2353436/0        ( 0.0%) 
faces                15704/65536      879424/3670016  (24.0%) 
hdr faces            15704/65536      879424/3670016  (24.0%) 
origfaces            12427/65536      695912/3670016  (19.0%) 
leaves                2413/65536       77216/2097152  ( 3.7%) 
leaffaces            19446/65536       38892/131072   (29.7%) 
leafbrushes           6732/65536       13464/131072   (10.3%) 
areas                    6/256            48/2048     ( 2.3%) 
surfedges           130823/512000     523292/2048000  (25.6%) 
edges                85084/256000     340336/1024000  (33.2%) 
LDR worldlights        607/8192        53416/720896   ( 7.4%) 
HDR worldlights        607/8192        53416/720896   ( 7.4%) 
leafwaterdata            0/32768           0/393216   ( 0.0%) 
waterstrips           2279/32768       22790/327680   ( 7.0%) 
waterverts               0/65536           0/786432   ( 0.0%) 
waterindices         46005/65536       92010/131072   (70.2%) 
cubemapsamples         100/1024         1600/16384    ( 9.8%) 
overlays               229/512         80608/180224   (44.7%) 
LDR lightdata         [variable]    20939592/0        ( 0.0%) 
HDR lightdata         [variable]    20939592/0        ( 0.0%) 
visdata               [variable]       61874/16777216 ( 0.4%) 
entdata               [variable]      181594/393216   (46.2%) 
LDR ambient table     2413/65536        9652/262144   ( 3.7%) 
HDR ambient table     2413/65536        9652/262144   ( 3.7%) 
LDR leaf ambient     12123/65536      339444/1835008  (18.5%) 
HDR leaf ambient     12036/65536      337008/1835008  (18.4%) 
occluders               30/0            1200/0        ( 0.0%) 
occluder polygons      173/0            2076/0        ( 0.0%) 
occluder vert ind      746/0            2984/0        ( 0.0%) 
detail props          [variable]           1/139096   ( 0.0%) 
dtl prp lght          [variable]           1/4        (25.0%) 
HDR dtl prp lght      [variable]           1/4        (25.0%) 
static props          [variable]           1/146564   ( 0.0%) 
pakfile               [variable]       26211/0        ( 0.0%) 
physics               [variable]     1426351/4194304  (34.0%) 
physics terrain       [variable]       66943/1048576  ( 6.4%)

 

[Vander]

Your attention to detail is amazing. You never fail to inspire me sir. I salute you!

 

[Cerious]

Wow, thats awesome. More signs, less confusion, and less emptiness? Excellent!