[WIP] cp_ksar

[Beetle]

This map is my rendition of the old map I consider a classic from TFC, ksour. I named mine ksar because I don't think I'm worthy of making the 'official' ksour, and ksar is what you are redirected to if you look up ksour on wikipedia. This is far from done - I just want to know what you think so far.

http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=593

Known issues:
-No entities setup except a couple of lights, func_details, prop_statics, 1 cubemap, and blue spawns.
-There should be a wall dividing 'blue spawn point 1' and the 'last cap area.' I just haven't redone that wall yet, so its just a big open space.
- The few ladders I have aren't setup yet.
- I barely started to optimize because I keep changing things.
-No skybox, but that will probably done close to last.

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At the end of this I realize I suck at taking screenshots, so you might just want to play it.

 

[grazr]

Try not to rely on using props for cover, and try to be more inventive with your architexture. Did you map for or play cs beforehand? Because that's the impression i get.

Try to avoid circular arches, it's not something common in TF2 (if at all, and probably why i think "cs" when i look at this map).

TF2 is very close quarters gameplay, try to keep this in mind.

Try adding trims and i think it would be good for you to reference badlands for style ideas when constructing this map.

Otherwise there's not much more i can help you with untill you start filing this map up with detail and props. Hopefully the layout works, but it does look a tad on the large side.

 

[FaTony]

Reminds me of cp_castle

 

[Beetle]

Reminds me of cp_castle

oh no!



I have played CS before, but it doesn't hold a candle to the amount of time I've played TFC. Ksour is just a sandy village from what I've seen in Google. That's really difficult to make look interesting, so I first tried to experiment with the outer walls, trying different styles.

So I shouldn't use things like crates as cover? why not?

My weak point is architecture and detail, so I realize I need heaps of improvement in that department.
Essentially I'm trying to successfully create a map thats not 'industry vs agriculture'.

 

[Ida]

I really like the second picture. Different spawns are awesome, plus the half-finished construction work (I assume it's supposed to be that) looks nice.

Otherwise, though, I've got to say that it's very bland and a bit blocky in a way. I can't say I like the big red/white concrete buildings at all (even though some of the trims look pretty sweet).

I've also got to complain about your use of ladders...do you really have to? It just doesn't feel natural at all. ...This is the second time today I'm commenting on ladders in a map today, btw.

So I shouldn't use things like crates as cover? why not?

I say there's no reason why you shouldn't. They provide great cover that rarely ends up looking out of place, so go on.

 

[Snipergen]

I would really like to hear from you why you did those / / / and [ ] [ ] [ ]

 

[Beetle]

just experimenting, trying to make it look sorta like the walls of a palace

and to just break the monotony without making it look like something from dustbowl

 

[Ida]

I really think you should consider using the currently existing "TF2 style" for this map. If you absolutely won't do that, I think you should at least try to look at the map cp_egypt - this one reminds me a lot of that, it's a sandy/dusty/blocky map that looks nothing at all like the Dustbowl/2fort/etc. maps while still looking like it fits in with TF2.

 

[Beetle]

I'm not against using the tf2 style, its just if i do that I might as well rename it because the real ksar is neither farming nor industry.

 

[grazr]

I'm not against using the tf2 style, its just if i do that I might as well rename it because the real ksar is neither farming nor industry.

The price one pays for designing levels for TF2. You wouldn't get a DoD mapper making a map in space, or in a 21st century airport etc etc.

I don't mean do not use crates for cover, i mean try not to rely on it. It's a common ammatuer level designers falling where cover only exists int he form of props; it cries a lack of imagination (and i don't mean any offence, for the most part, you just need to get used to the tools).

If for the majority of maps, their cover was simply props, it would be very monotonouse. Even if you're architexture was unique, maps would all be very similar.

Props in TF2 have the tendancy to be minimalistic in terms of effect on gameplay and more for visuals, propped up against walls or stacked away in a corner. When they are useful for cover it is often a case of close quarters combat, running around a giant computer server on the egde of a cp in tc_hydro, or dodging a rocket in 2fort by hiding behind a barrel. The only real cover they provide for frequantly is the odd sg position. You want to create dynamic gameplay, not for people to turtle behind defences.

Also, try to mix up your props. if you have some crates, have some barrels and maybe prop up a plank of wood or two, rather than just a load of crates, or just hay barrels.

 

[Beetle]

Ok. I'll try revamping the map, maybe instead of walls with designs, fences blocking out some houses and desert space like pl_badwater? I originally was going to do an excavation-type design with the map which is why the first area looks so much better than the rest (and by first area I essentially mean the spawn and its surroundings).

Would it be bad to have more mountain/displacements/sand than buildings? That might be my work-around for not currently having a tf2-style map.