Quick update, fixing spawns, lighting, and various other issues. This version is fit to test!
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Read the rest of this update entry...
- Thread starter phi
- Start date
Wildlife a8
Changelog:
- fixed a big majority of the small things in the a7 feedback page
- clipping improved all over
- respawn waves and timing
//Starting value at round start = 10 (Max: 20)
//3CP Owned = 9 (Max: 18)
//4CP Owned = 7 (Max: 14)
- fixed door parenting and naming for red side
- added sightline block to 2nd
- tons of displacement polish
- adjusted cubemap positions
Read the rest of this update entry...
Changelog:
- fixed a big majority of the small things in the a7 feedback page
- clipping improved all over
- respawn waves and timing
//Starting value at round start = 10 (Max: 20)
//3CP Owned = 9 (Max: 18)
//4CP Owned = 7 (Max: 14)
- fixed door parenting and naming for red side
- added sightline block to 2nd
- tons of displacement polish
- adjusted cubemap positions
Read the rest of this update entry...
One more step towards beta. Changes being pushed out in large batches now.
(Major Changes)
-Base respawn time for both teams lowered to 9 from 10
-Altered last spawn so rollout is easier and straightforward
-Moved the bridge near last point forwards slightly
-Removed cover directly next to last point
-Trimmed up excess space near the last point
-Last lobby area opened up and adjusted slightly
-Fixed a displacement seam under last lobby
-Added a medium ammo to the last lobby
-Removed a support under a bridge on last; added small ammo there
-Fixed a small sightline by last
-Extended a perch location near second point
-Fixed being able to block second from behind the sniper fence
-Fixed a case of getting stuck underneath second point
-Added a medium health behind second
-Changed a small health to a small ammo near second
-Adjusted mid forward spawn to be centered with the correct path
-Fixed a case of getting stuck near mid tree trunk
-Adjusted the placement of some health and ammo near mid forward spawn
-Added a barrel near mid to help a jump route seem obvious/easier
-Improved signage all around the map
-Improved blockbullet clipping all around the map
(Minor Changes)
-Reversed point layout on the HUD
-Lots of clipping and displacement polishing
-Overall lighting improvements
-Small detail improvements throughout the map
-Disabled self-shading on wooden barrier props
-Realigned and adjusted a lot of textures
-Changed skybox to sky_gravel_01
-Adjusted env_lighting to reflect skybox change
-Added an env_sun
-Adjusted various cubemaps
Read the rest of this update entry...
(Major Changes)
-Base respawn time for both teams lowered to 9 from 10
-Altered last spawn so rollout is easier and straightforward
-Moved the bridge near last point forwards slightly
-Removed cover directly next to last point
-Trimmed up excess space near the last point
-Last lobby area opened up and adjusted slightly
-Fixed a displacement seam under last lobby
-Added a medium ammo to the last lobby
-Removed a support under a bridge on last; added small ammo there
-Fixed a small sightline by last
-Extended a perch location near second point
-Fixed being able to block second from behind the sniper fence
-Fixed a case of getting stuck underneath second point
-Added a medium health behind second
-Changed a small health to a small ammo near second
-Adjusted mid forward spawn to be centered with the correct path
-Fixed a case of getting stuck near mid tree trunk
-Adjusted the placement of some health and ammo near mid forward spawn
-Added a barrel near mid to help a jump route seem obvious/easier
-Improved signage all around the map
-Improved blockbullet clipping all around the map
(Minor Changes)
-Reversed point layout on the HUD
-Lots of clipping and displacement polishing
-Overall lighting improvements
-Small detail improvements throughout the map
-Disabled self-shading on wooden barrier props
-Realigned and adjusted a lot of textures
-Changed skybox to sky_gravel_01
-Adjusted env_lighting to reflect skybox change
-Added an env_sun
-Adjusted various cubemaps
Read the rest of this update entry...
- Aug 7, 2014
- 1,241
- 1,025
Some feedback dump based on past tests and some theory crafting.
Ditch this support, it adds nothing to the gameplay space and I end up getting caught on it more often than not when I'm down here and die as a result.
This rock feels more like an unnecessary hurdle than anything else. I have to crouch jump to avoid catching and slowing down on it.
I spawned inside the trigger for the resupply cabinet.
A couple of other observations and opinions:
As someone who plays a fair bit of Scout, I don't like this side of second very much. It's entirely surrounded by high ground with no real easy way to change elevations. As a result, the door in the middle of the picture isn't valid for me to push out of. In fact, moving out of the door on the left gives me a faster and safer means of approaching the high ground to the right (where enemies might be holding or entering from) other than using the bridge. As such I'm rarely going to be in that area while there's combat going on.
And once I'm up on that high ground, I have two options for approaching the point itself quickly, and both involve using the rock I'm pointing at. I can double jump up to where I'm standing, or basher jump up to the point. Neither are very good and neither feel very safe. In this spot, I don't have anywhere to maneuver, little room to jump, and the people who might be up on the ramp have an advantageous angle to shoot me. Meanwhile, the Basher jump is incredibly risky if there are any enemies at all on the point. It should be a valid defense tactic but it's severely devalued because it's dependent on the health pack.
Icing on the cake is that it's stupidly easy to mess up jumping onto/off of this rock.
Ditch this support, it adds nothing to the gameplay space and I end up getting caught on it more often than not when I'm down here and die as a result.
This rock feels more like an unnecessary hurdle than anything else. I have to crouch jump to avoid catching and slowing down on it.
I spawned inside the trigger for the resupply cabinet.
A couple of other observations and opinions:
As someone who plays a fair bit of Scout, I don't like this side of second very much. It's entirely surrounded by high ground with no real easy way to change elevations. As a result, the door in the middle of the picture isn't valid for me to push out of. In fact, moving out of the door on the left gives me a faster and safer means of approaching the high ground to the right (where enemies might be holding or entering from) other than using the bridge. As such I'm rarely going to be in that area while there's combat going on.
And once I'm up on that high ground, I have two options for approaching the point itself quickly, and both involve using the rock I'm pointing at. I can double jump up to where I'm standing, or basher jump up to the point. Neither are very good and neither feel very safe. In this spot, I don't have anywhere to maneuver, little room to jump, and the people who might be up on the ramp have an advantageous angle to shoot me. Meanwhile, the Basher jump is incredibly risky if there are any enemies at all on the point. It should be a valid defense tactic but it's severely devalued because it's dependent on the health pack.
Icing on the cake is that it's stupidly easy to mess up jumping onto/off of this rock.
Last edited:
nitewalker
L2: Junior Member
- Aug 5, 2014
- 64
- 142
so we played this in new-new map pugs last night and i wanted to do a big writeup on it since a lot of the feedback on the plugin was just bug checking or ridiculous stuff.
i really don't like the current last for 6's, its wide and flat, there are really no strong places to hold, sniper has massive sightlines around the entire last and can stand on the roof behind point while still having clear sightlines on most/all of the entrances, the exception being the lower entrance.
speaking of which, that entrance/area didnt seem particularly utilized in the games that i played, i dont know if that is a fault of unfamiliarity with the map or with the layout itself but i suspect that it is largely to do with how tucked away the major entrance is (along with the props behind it making it seem like a dead end) and how unappealing the stairs are (walking away from the direction of attack into a narrow area with no way of knowing what is down there beforehand)
the remainder of the connecting area between last and 2nd is really interesting though, my only major complaint is that it's really difficult to push out of last and back into second due to the geometry of this area. there are a lot of opportunities for the attacking team to hide pushing from the rightmost entrance with the shed, leading to easy picks and a failed push out of last and pushing the leftmost entrance is a deathtrap because of the size of the antechamber along with the fact that it is lower than the large room immediately following.
in general i think a lot of the issues with the last could be solved by making the lower area more accessible and maybe adding some props or walls around last to prevent sniper from being too dominant
the 2nd point is exceedingly easy to hold. this is simply because the point has an easy view of every entrance with the exception of the tiny hallway entrance, and all of the entrances sit far lower than the point which makes for easy spam and very few bombing opportunities. the 2nd point is also very wide, meaning it's demoman and soldier paradise for the defenders. an easy fix would be to provide a legitimate flank route to 2nd, maybe by covering the entrance to the far left so that it isnt visible from the point (i have more grievances with this valley area that i'll address in a moment)
the connecting area between 2nd and mid is fantastic for the most part, really thoroughly enjoyable. pushing over the main entrance is a thrilling experience from both sides, there are lots of sneaky nooks and crannies for scouts and roamers to hide in. definitely my favorite area of the map, except for the valley. its a complete waste of time to go there, pushing to either point from there is a deathtrap as it puts you at a major height disadvantage with no suprise factor and no extra speed to the point.
the mid to me seems fairly one dimensional. the dropdown doesn't really offer any sort of tactical or positional advantage, climbing to the roof over mid as scout takes ages, using any of the low ground is a deathtrap because it generally doesnt offer a ton of cover from spam. all of this results in the mid functionally existing as just 2 bridges connecting to a point for the midfight. the mid would be a lot more dynamic if scouts could easily climb it and if there existed a reason to be anywhere but directly on the point
i know the majority of this feedback seems deeply negative but i really had a lot of fun playing this map. if i included all of my positive feedback along with the negative then this would be 3 times as long as it already is, and i dont think anyone is interested in that. this definitely has a lot of potential as a 6's map and is really gorgeous, keep up the excellent work
i really don't like the current last for 6's, its wide and flat, there are really no strong places to hold, sniper has massive sightlines around the entire last and can stand on the roof behind point while still having clear sightlines on most/all of the entrances, the exception being the lower entrance.
speaking of which, that entrance/area didnt seem particularly utilized in the games that i played, i dont know if that is a fault of unfamiliarity with the map or with the layout itself but i suspect that it is largely to do with how tucked away the major entrance is (along with the props behind it making it seem like a dead end) and how unappealing the stairs are (walking away from the direction of attack into a narrow area with no way of knowing what is down there beforehand)
the remainder of the connecting area between last and 2nd is really interesting though, my only major complaint is that it's really difficult to push out of last and back into second due to the geometry of this area. there are a lot of opportunities for the attacking team to hide pushing from the rightmost entrance with the shed, leading to easy picks and a failed push out of last and pushing the leftmost entrance is a deathtrap because of the size of the antechamber along with the fact that it is lower than the large room immediately following.
in general i think a lot of the issues with the last could be solved by making the lower area more accessible and maybe adding some props or walls around last to prevent sniper from being too dominant
the 2nd point is exceedingly easy to hold. this is simply because the point has an easy view of every entrance with the exception of the tiny hallway entrance, and all of the entrances sit far lower than the point which makes for easy spam and very few bombing opportunities. the 2nd point is also very wide, meaning it's demoman and soldier paradise for the defenders. an easy fix would be to provide a legitimate flank route to 2nd, maybe by covering the entrance to the far left so that it isnt visible from the point (i have more grievances with this valley area that i'll address in a moment)
the connecting area between 2nd and mid is fantastic for the most part, really thoroughly enjoyable. pushing over the main entrance is a thrilling experience from both sides, there are lots of sneaky nooks and crannies for scouts and roamers to hide in. definitely my favorite area of the map, except for the valley. its a complete waste of time to go there, pushing to either point from there is a deathtrap as it puts you at a major height disadvantage with no suprise factor and no extra speed to the point.
the mid to me seems fairly one dimensional. the dropdown doesn't really offer any sort of tactical or positional advantage, climbing to the roof over mid as scout takes ages, using any of the low ground is a deathtrap because it generally doesnt offer a ton of cover from spam. all of this results in the mid functionally existing as just 2 bridges connecting to a point for the midfight. the mid would be a lot more dynamic if scouts could easily climb it and if there existed a reason to be anywhere but directly on the point
i know the majority of this feedback seems deeply negative but i really had a lot of fun playing this map. if i included all of my positive feedback along with the negative then this would be 3 times as long as it already is, and i dont think anyone is interested in that. this definitely has a lot of potential as a 6's map and is really gorgeous, keep up the excellent work
Beta 2. Thanks nitewalker and New New Map Pugs for the feedback.
• fixed spectator cameras, they were set to the wrong points
• fixed stickies sticking to spawn doors
• slightly adjusted displacements on mid
• removed health on high ground above mid
• lowered high ground on mid
• added shacks on either side of mid for scout jumping
• removed dropdown; replaced with large upper exit into mid
• removed health on top of second point
• removed small balcony jutting out of second
• remade flank route from mid to second completely
• removed lower-under entrance into last
• opened up, simplified, and raised left-side L choke into last
• covered up jump route onto shack behind last
• new small soldier-scout jump route back near shack behind last
• added 2 barriers in front of left L choke on last
• added new route into lower last in place of the old entrance
• moved med health-ammo set in left L choke over slightly
• moved med health-ammo set behind second over slightly
• added small health on second low ground under point/spire
• removed pillar in right U flank into last
• shifted props around in left U flank into last
• various lighting changes
• various detail changes
• saws now make noise
• full soundscapes
Read the rest of this update entry...
• fixed spectator cameras, they were set to the wrong points
• fixed stickies sticking to spawn doors
• slightly adjusted displacements on mid
• removed health on high ground above mid
• lowered high ground on mid
• added shacks on either side of mid for scout jumping
• removed dropdown; replaced with large upper exit into mid
• removed health on top of second point
• removed small balcony jutting out of second
• remade flank route from mid to second completely
• removed lower-under entrance into last
• opened up, simplified, and raised left-side L choke into last
• covered up jump route onto shack behind last
• new small soldier-scout jump route back near shack behind last
• added 2 barriers in front of left L choke on last
• added new route into lower last in place of the old entrance
• moved med health-ammo set in left L choke over slightly
• moved med health-ammo set behind second over slightly
• added small health on second low ground under point/spire
• removed pillar in right U flank into last
• shifted props around in left U flank into last
• various lighting changes
• various detail changes
• saws now make noise
• full soundscapes
Read the rest of this update entry...
Not that it really matters, but it would be nice if the changelogs where layed out more like I did on Banana, it's much more easy to read/write imo.
nitewalker
L2: Junior Member
- Aug 5, 2014
- 64
- 142
tons of positive changes here, definitely interested in seeing how it plays in 6's soon
i literally just made the list as i made changes so yeah it's pretty out of order heh
i'll definitely use that format next time though, it's better
definitely made lots of these changes based off of your feedback, thanks a ton for it because it really helped me solidify where the weaker areas of the map were. every point's got changes and there's been changes to each of the connector groups too.
Carn
L1: Registered
- May 17, 2014
- 12
- 10
So this is some rehashing/my own look into the map. Basically it's just a dump of feedback, hope it helps some!
This whole little bit feels kind of useless and it might be better if it was just removed. Gives a few too many sight lines and advantages, especially for jumping classes.
This part could be expanded out this way some, and also generally opening it up might help with having this be a nice holding position. Since it's so close to spawn and the point, this'll probably be the best spot, overall, for defenders to be.
This window here seems like it'd give the team pushing a little too much of an advantage seeing into last/people that might be close to the choke on the defending side. Maybe cover it up or move it upward so that it doesn't give as much of an advantage.
This being medium seems like a bit much, especially with a medium right next to it. If you make it a small it'll still give enough for rollouts and there'll be more than enough for people pushing in through here.
These seem kind of close to eachother, you could try decreasing the medium health pack down to a small, instead. That might also help with evening out the amount of packs on either side of this entrance.
This lower area is a bit usesless with this change now, due to how easy it is to get from choke, and how easily spammable it is. You could try walling it off here and making it a bit more of a direct route from the lower area from second.
Since that last change would cause some vis problems, expanding this building's entrance to face this way would help get rid of them.
Expanding this part out this way would definitely help with creating a holding position right here. It might also deter people from trying to hold on the point/on the ramp to the point. If you make it so that the dirt path faces a direction going towards the choke it would add a nice, quick route to the small health pack under the spire.
I wanted to start this bit off with how much I really like this overall change to this flank route. It looks nice, and is a nice, overall, improvement to this area.
This is a bit of a weird spot that you can get yourself into. Maybe fill it up with some more boxes and clip it off.
This shutter feels kind of useless, it doesn't block too many sightlines and adds a bit of an annoying break between the areas here on flank. I would just get rid of the shutter, altogether.
You can actually shoot through these holes here, might cause some annoying things to happen in the future.
These two beams being able to be stood on will probably make this area a little too easy to spam down at the entrances from.
Removing this bridge here will definitely help rollouts, and some other changes to this area might help this spot, in general. I think kounter said something about leveling this area out and things like that, I didn't actually catch what he said, though. I know that removing that small z that connects to the bridge will definitely help immensely.
This area creates a really nice choke spot, but the door to the z connector screws it up a little bit.
Dark hiding spot right here.
Another dark hiding spot.
Bit of a dark spot here.
I actually liked this bit here a bit more in the last version. The side changes are really nice, especially around drop down, but I want to say the height of the upper bit + the small health pack that was there before definitely added to the map in a nice way.
Overall, I really do enjoy the map's aesthetic, and it seems like it was received well based on what I heard from the pugs. I honestly can't wait to see where it goes and wish ya the best with it!
This whole little bit feels kind of useless and it might be better if it was just removed. Gives a few too many sight lines and advantages, especially for jumping classes.
This part could be expanded out this way some, and also generally opening it up might help with having this be a nice holding position. Since it's so close to spawn and the point, this'll probably be the best spot, overall, for defenders to be.
This window here seems like it'd give the team pushing a little too much of an advantage seeing into last/people that might be close to the choke on the defending side. Maybe cover it up or move it upward so that it doesn't give as much of an advantage.
This being medium seems like a bit much, especially with a medium right next to it. If you make it a small it'll still give enough for rollouts and there'll be more than enough for people pushing in through here.
These seem kind of close to eachother, you could try decreasing the medium health pack down to a small, instead. That might also help with evening out the amount of packs on either side of this entrance.
This lower area is a bit usesless with this change now, due to how easy it is to get from choke, and how easily spammable it is. You could try walling it off here and making it a bit more of a direct route from the lower area from second.
Since that last change would cause some vis problems, expanding this building's entrance to face this way would help get rid of them.
Expanding this part out this way would definitely help with creating a holding position right here. It might also deter people from trying to hold on the point/on the ramp to the point. If you make it so that the dirt path faces a direction going towards the choke it would add a nice, quick route to the small health pack under the spire.
I wanted to start this bit off with how much I really like this overall change to this flank route. It looks nice, and is a nice, overall, improvement to this area.
This is a bit of a weird spot that you can get yourself into. Maybe fill it up with some more boxes and clip it off.
This shutter feels kind of useless, it doesn't block too many sightlines and adds a bit of an annoying break between the areas here on flank. I would just get rid of the shutter, altogether.
You can actually shoot through these holes here, might cause some annoying things to happen in the future.
These two beams being able to be stood on will probably make this area a little too easy to spam down at the entrances from.
Removing this bridge here will definitely help rollouts, and some other changes to this area might help this spot, in general. I think kounter said something about leveling this area out and things like that, I didn't actually catch what he said, though. I know that removing that small z that connects to the bridge will definitely help immensely.
This area creates a really nice choke spot, but the door to the z connector screws it up a little bit.
Dark hiding spot right here.
Another dark hiding spot.
Bit of a dark spot here.
I actually liked this bit here a bit more in the last version. The side changes are really nice, especially around drop down, but I want to say the height of the upper bit + the small health pack that was there before definitely added to the map in a nice way.
Overall, I really do enjoy the map's aesthetic, and it seems like it was received well based on what I heard from the pugs. I honestly can't wait to see where it goes and wish ya the best with it!
Last edited:
Avaray
L2: Junior Member
- Oct 14, 2011
- 72
- 4
This map can be very good for 6v6.
Ok, but about problems...
This spot on 2nd point is giving too much advantage.
This spot on Mid point is giving too much advantage.
And this spot on Mid point is weird. You can shoot from this place...
...so my sugesstion is to decrease height of this wall by 1/3
Ok, but about problems...
This spot on 2nd point is giving too much advantage.
This spot on Mid point is giving too much advantage.
And this spot on Mid point is weird. You can shoot from this place...
...so my sugesstion is to decrease height of this wall by 1/3
Hi, I played this map yesterday in a doublemix (with the poster above me, Avaray, actually as it happens). It played well and was a lot of fun.
I have one specific suggestion and two general observations (albeit based on just one game).
Suggestion: I would like a way for the medic and other lower-mobility classes to climb up on the left at second, as illustrated below. A 2nd taller barrel there would work, or anywhere nearby. I felt trapped on the low ground there and walking around to climb up slowed pushes down too.
Observations: the buildings between mid and 2nd and last and 2nd felt too complex inside - too many little corners, elevation changes, side routes etc. That impression might just be an artefact of playing the map for the first time, though.
Finally, last was quite tricky to push into. All three main entrances to it are from a height disadvantage so I'd suggest evening at least one of them up - maybe the far left door (from the attackers' perspective) could be put level with the point or even have a small height advantage?
I have one specific suggestion and two general observations (albeit based on just one game).
Suggestion: I would like a way for the medic and other lower-mobility classes to climb up on the left at second, as illustrated below. A 2nd taller barrel there would work, or anywhere nearby. I felt trapped on the low ground there and walking around to climb up slowed pushes down too.
Observations: the buildings between mid and 2nd and last and 2nd felt too complex inside - too many little corners, elevation changes, side routes etc. That impression might just be an artefact of playing the map for the first time, though.
Finally, last was quite tricky to push into. All three main entrances to it are from a height disadvantage so I'd suggest evening at least one of them up - maybe the far left door (from the attackers' perspective) could be put level with the point or even have a small height advantage?
Here's a refresher:
The last update to Wildlife was posted in October of 2015. Since then I've organised my move to the UK, visited Kim for 4.5 months in 2016, bought an 8-string electric guitar, the works. Lots of stuff happening and the whole time I've had this map in the back of my mind. Always wanting to work on it and make it better.
So here we go.
I tore about half the map apart and remade it. Here's what I remade:
• The entirity of last
• 5/6 of the lobby between last and second
• One of the major chokes between mid and second
• Mid-second flank
• Lighting
• Blend texturing
and I've also added the assets from LANDFALL for good measure. Finally, that tree has a proper model!
Enjoy the true revival of old, forgotten 5cps.
Read the rest of this update entry...
The last update to Wildlife was posted in October of 2015. Since then I've organised my move to the UK, visited Kim for 4.5 months in 2016, bought an 8-string electric guitar, the works. Lots of stuff happening and the whole time I've had this map in the back of my mind. Always wanting to work on it and make it better.
So here we go.
I tore about half the map apart and remade it. Here's what I remade:
• The entirity of last
• 5/6 of the lobby between last and second
• One of the major chokes between mid and second
• Mid-second flank
• Lighting
• Blend texturing
and I've also added the assets from LANDFALL for good measure. Finally, that tree has a proper model!
Enjoy the true revival of old, forgotten 5cps.
Read the rest of this update entry...