Wildlife

CP Wildlife b3

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phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
Wildlife is a 5cp map centered in unique points and unorthodox path construction. The map takes inspiration from the likes of old, near-forgotten 5cp maps such as Obscure, Bazillion, Mainline, Toxic, and many others.

I have tried to make this one of the most unique 5cp experiences you'll have in TF2.

Made by phi and Vincent.
 
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phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
ALSO please disregard the big ugly displacement-and-leaf-model tree on second, I have no modeling skills and I don't want to get someone to model me a cool-ass huge tree when it's only in a1, okay?
 

phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
thoughts from the gameday? i don't usually ask here but it's a lot easier to write cohesive thoughts on a map after you've played it, maybe someone has things they'd like to say/feedback or whatever
 

chemelia

yndersn't
aa
May 11, 2014
406
It played really well in the areas around the points and other structures, but the biggest problems were that many areas were really open and empty, and that there were entirely too many pathways between points. I would simplify the connectors a bit, and add some buildings or something in the more open areas.
 

phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
And people say depression is a bad thing :3

(I am so sorry, this is supposed to be a compliment)

depression is, logistically and socially, the absolute worst thing in my life right now.
it's really odd and hard to describe but some of the things i do to cope with it i don't think i could have done if i had never had depression. i dunno. if i never needed a way to cope with my depression years ago i might have never started listening to music and buying a guitar and learning how to sing and eventually start writing music. i also might never have started mapping, might not have ever made maps, etc etc. all of this is a coping mechanism and i don't know if i can honestly say that i would have done all this if i didn't have depression. it's weird and it's still hard to fight it but mapping and music help, they help a lot

i won't downplay depression at all though, it's hard and tough and it sucks. but i mean i take what i have and i do what i can. it's the hand i was dealt in life so i have to make something good out of it, right?

anyways a2 should be out in the next few days, maybe tomorrow. probably tomorrow. thanks for playing and enjoying the map and i hope it can be even more fun in a2!
 

Salty

L1: Registered
May 18, 2014
9
wow, this is great, never understood terrain in hammer, its a bit confusing because displacement can sometimes ruin the entire map. anyway, its great hope to see a finished or nearly finished version of this.
 

HQDefault

...what
aa
Aug 6, 2014
1,057
depression is, logistically and socially, the absolute worst thing in my life right now.
it's really odd and hard to describe but some of the things i do to cope with it i don't think i could have done if i had never had depression. i dunno. if i never needed a way to cope with my depression years ago i might have never started listening to music and buying a guitar and learning how to sing and eventually start writing music. i also might never have started mapping, might not have ever made maps, etc etc. all of this is a coping mechanism and i don't know if i can honestly say that i would have done all this if i didn't have depression. it's weird and it's still hard to fight it but mapping and music help, they help a lot

i won't downplay depression at all though, it's hard and tough and it sucks. but i mean i take what i have and i do what i can. it's the hand i was dealt in life so i have to make something good out of it, right?

anyways a2 should be out in the next few days, maybe tomorrow. probably tomorrow. thanks for playing and enjoying the map and i hope it can be even more fun in a2!
I'm sorry, that was an offensive joke :(
But seriously though, great job! :thumbup:
 

phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
cp_wildlife_a3

download (bz2)

changes include:

lots of miniature cover-based edits
batts on 2nd edit
mid redetail and polish
various tweaks on routes
messed with healthkit placement a bit
 
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phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
Okay. I've been getting a lot of feedback which is nice! however most if not all of it is just clipping/graphical issues. This is the same issue I went through with Sunshine, the reason I never bothered testing that map here again after a3. This is probably also a similar reason as to why scorpio never really updated his maps here, either. The testing environment is just bad for 5cp.

I'm probably going to try to get map pugs running again through teamfortress.tv, hopefully find some people there who'd be willing to run the map. The feedback here tends to just get pretty useless after a couple alphas.

CASE IN POINT:
Screenshot%202014-11-19%2014.02.33.png


The feedback plugin is useful for graphical issues and clipping errors but is completely handicapped and useless when it comes to crap like this. Every single time I tested Sunshine here, it was exactly the same thing. Some people saying it's "too big", others saying it's "just fine". I'm perfectly ok with the "just fine" people, it's just when you go on to someone's map and complain it's too big,

you need to provide some evidence and some reasoning.

That's what this thread is for, for people to actually tell me why they think it's too big.

Why do you think the rollout is too long as heavy? Because it isn't.

Rollout on Granary takes until 9:28. (From the start of the round.)
Rollout on Badlands takes until 9:30.
Rollout on Snakewater takes until 9:32.
Rollout on Metalworks takes until 9:28.
Rollout on Process takes until 9:30.
Rollout on Sunshine takes until 9:30.

and here,
the rollout on Wildlife takes until 9:28.

Actually do some research. The optimal rollout here puts you in a good position as a heavy, as all good rollouts should, and is consistent with the timings of the best comp maps.

There is no excuse for re.wind to complain about rollout times as heavy LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE TEST when the rollouts are PERFECTLY NORMAL for a 5CP map. It's fucking annoying. Please stop and actually provide helpful feedback about the size, if you think it's too big.

Because just saying the map is big doesn't help. WHAT part of the map is too big? It could be ANYTHING:
  1. the area around the last point
  2. the area outside last spawn
  3. the area around last battlements
  4. the area of last-second flank
  5. last lobby
  6. the low ground on 2nd
  7. the high ground on 2nd
  8. the point on 2nd
  9. battlements on 2nd
  10. flank on 2nd
  11. lobby between 2nd and mid
  12. flank between 2nd flank and mid
  13. mid battlements
  14. mid low ground
  15. mid point

Just saying the map is "too big" is USELESS FEEDBACK and will be IGNORED. Please, please, please specify the specific area that you think is too big. That's the only way it will ever be useful. That's what comp players do, and that's why testing with teamfortress.tv, UGC, and ETF2L is infinitely better than TF2M as it is right now. Please learn to give useful, enriching, complete feedback instead of this useless "takes too long to walk to mid as heavy" crap.

I agree some of the areas of the map are a bit too big or wide. But I know which ones those are, I've figured that all out with help from friends. I have yet to hear a single specific case being mentioned in the feedback or the thread.

Thank you.

A4 will be out soon.
 

Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,241
The thing I try to keep in mind with the feedback tool here is that people are generally writing rushed snippets of what they are trying to convey because they either want to get back to the fight, or want to get it in before someone kills them. The problem is that very few people go out of their way afterwards to make sure the mapper understands what they are trying to convey to them.

Also, the biggest thing is that everyone here is coming at a map test from a mapper perspective, and they aren't necessarily that good at the game. You'll get a lot more little bugs and tweaks here than you will in comp testing, but gameplay-wise it can be hard to convey what they are trying to get at, if it's even a valid concern. I try to take it as "take a look at this general thing" rather than word for word what they are saying. They are feeling this way for some reason, so let's look into whether it's legit or not.

And ultimately, everyone just wants to be helpful. This leads to a lot of "clip" or vague feedback that may or may not be useful to the mapper, but it's done with good intentions usually.

So, in short, take the feedback in stride. Utilize the good, ignore the bad. I promise if the comp players had a feedback tool like this you'd get a lot of mediocre feedback from people who don't know what their talking about, too!
 

phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
Hey I mean I love the clipping feedback. That's the best part about the fb here. But when someone acts as if they know everything about balance or when they persist giving the same feedback version after version, it gets mighty annoying.

I can understand it from someone who is new at the game or mapping too! That's perfectly acceptable. But when people who have been here for years don't learn how to provide proper feedback, that's annoying. When people who've played the servers and have more posts than me (rewind) give the same feedback test after test, without stopping to consider if it's actually a valid and logical complaint, it gets annoying. I do look at it for whether it's legit or not, just is very hard when some of it is so unfounded in reality

If comp players had a feedback tool then yeah, there would be useless feedback. But there would also be a lot more useful feedback than here! Because with my experience with comp mapping, going on two years and five maps, the players tend to be a lot better at articulating their ideas. Mainly because they have a lot more gamesense when it comes to areas of focus in maps and where the natural holds should be.

I'd appreciate this place a lot more if people actually came into the thread to write their thoughts, like you do, Crash. But when someone just says the "map is too big" and INSISTS that they're right, insists that I'm wrong on the servers, and doesn't come in and actually explain their reasoning behind it, I guess it bugs be a lot.

Mainly because that's what comp players do a lot better, is they actually give feedback in the threads. Whether it be good or bad doesn't matter, most of them at least take the time to write their post so they can further articulate their point.

Oh well. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Just a little heated because I've heard rewind's little "takes too long to walk as heavy" feedback a little too often, and it's painful to get because he doesn't understand some of the basic elements of the game, why heavy is slow to mid, why teleporters exist, why full rollout walktimes are long.

Thanks for responding, though. The "utilize the good, ignore the bad" is definitely what I do.
Just sometimes the bad overwhelms me with the utter banality of it all. Sometimes it gets to my head a little too much.
 

Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,241
I'm not as experienced as you with comp testing, but I got quite a bit of solid feedback from the comp community with my Glassworks tests, so I definitely can understand where you're coming from. It's the big thing I've noticed going between the two communities, in fact.

Mappers just aren't necessarily good at the game. A lot of people want to make maps without fully understanding the subtleties of the game itself (not saying this is necessarily the case here, I'm going to stay neutral as a staff member on it). This can lead to some unfounded feedback at times, which can be frustrating. Nothing is worse than getting negative feedback for something that you know for a fact isn't an issue.

I think the testing here can be VERY helpful for newer mappers, while more seasoned veterans don't benefit as much. But, it's still a good place to test, and if you go at it thinking of it as a pub test (with all the good and bad that implies) with the added benefit of some mapper insight, I'm sure you can find it to be pretty helpful.
 

phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
827
cp_wildlife_a6

The entire map has been remade.

What remains of the old version is only the tree spire on 2nd, the rest has been completely rethought and remade from scratch.

Last point design and construction by the lovely @Vincent, this is a collaboration effort with him. It's been an incredible development iteration and I'm very proud to announce what Wildlife has become.

cp_wildlife is a 5cp map centered in unique points and unorthodox path construction. The map...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

Lain

heath ledger with some dreads
aa
Jan 8, 2015
743
Took a look around, since I liked Wildlife for the most part, it's both sad and brilliant to see how much it has changed. Can't wait to play on it, here is some stuff I noticed.

Pretty good Soldier/Demo perch spot on last, lets you peek at the chokes.
wuBQbtz.jpg


NASTY sightline coming from last.
m0NE8ct.jpg


And the other one in the same spot, not as bad but still pretty good considering its in the same location.
7gDPxrY.jpg


Should probably clip this, it would annoy players most likely
7CCvdTm.jpg


Weird lighting on this door, doesn't happpen on Blu side.
gSwfDGw.jpg


Pretty dark lighting, it's not as bad on the Red side but it's still there.
9j3cqKg.jpg


Please don't taunt me like this ;w;
sTHd1jJ.jpg
 

Pocket

Naylte ven, naylte yen.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,633
Oh yeah, never put ladders at ground level in-bounds, unless they literally don't lead anywhere.