What is considered Useful or Spam-like?

[Strandedpasta]

Recently, a topic called "The prediction game" has been locked due to a person accidentally posting something inappropriate. But people have complained that locking the thread shouldn't have happened, due to them liking to post on that thread to being with. Then a drama war started to happen on people's statues about the whole thing.

But after looking around the rules, past events, and the whole argument in particular, I have realized the problem. That a thread must be Useful in order to be on the website. If it's not useful, then it will be considered spam. But the problem is that a thread's Usefulness, and on if a thread is Spam-like or not, is extremly vague and confusing. So instead of fighting on what should be useful or not, or trying to silence the ones who are agruing, I have decided that we should try to find a compromise on what content is considered useful as a community. So we can have a healthy discussion on the issue instead of ignoring it so it can get worse.

So lets start with my view on the concept. (Made it a spoiler so you can tell when it goes into my opinion)

Spoiler: My side of the argument

So lets start this off by me saying that threads like "The prediction game" shouldn't be banned, because the thread itself didn't harm anyone other then the comment that lead to its ban, but even then the guy who did it should have gotten the blame instead of the whole entire thread. If the thread starts to distract you in anyway, you can simply ignore it by unwatching it or by not looking at it at all.

Id also like to ask on if the thread is clogging up the front page, then why did you allow off-topic threads to be on the front page to begin with? Can you just block a group of threads like that on the front page, or set the front page to certain types of threads?

So what is considered useful or spam-like?

P.S. Here's a website that describes what spam is so you can understand it before calling it blindly: http://www.spamlaws.com/what-is-spam.html

Edited: The problem has been solve, it was just me being stupid. . . Sorry. . .

 

[Fruity Snacks]

There's a difference in definition of "Spam" for say, emails and such and the spam for something on forums.

I'll leave it with what I usually say on this topic:

If you have to ask yourself "Is the post/thread really useful or contributing positively to the community?" the answer is probably no.
(Much like, if you have to ask yourself "is this stupid?" the answer is probably yes)

Is a "prediction game" thread useful or contributing to the community?

 

[sooshey]

In my honest opinion, those off-topic game threads are rarely any good. It's just the same 5 people posting over and over again for tens, sometimes hundreds of pages before it devolves into annoying and unfunny. I'm not saying "no fun allowed," it's just that this site isn't really the place for pointless threads that less than 10 people actually like. This is a site for TF2 (or just Source in general) mapping, not trite inside jokes and immaturity. There are other sites that are less niche and moderated that would be happy to have you.

 

[Crash]

I reiterate, the ONE comment was not the only reason it was locked. There were numerous throughout it that lead to the lock. That was just the one that showed me it wasn't getting any better. It was a thread for a very small group of people on the site amusing each other in a dumb way, and having it constantly pop up on the front page, being the first thing seen by visitors to the site, was silly. We could remove the entire Off Topic forum from that list, or we could improve the quality of the posts in it. You can see the route we went.

Very few people have complained about the thread lock, but a whole lot more have thanked me for doing it.

 

[Strandedpasta]

Ugg, I should have posted this at a different time. Now I have to reply to all of these.

Fr0Z3nR:
In a way, the "prediction game" does have use in this community. It give the community a past time while at the forums. That's why there was a backlash when the "prediction game" was deleted. Cause people actual like posting stuff on those threads. If anything, that shouldn't matter if this was posted in an off-topic thread. Where the threads have nothing to do with the community to begin with.

sooshey:
But I do see that time does ruin such a thread. I have a feeling that anything with just a bit of moderation can make things go smoothly. Maybe a limit on how long a thread game can go might solve that problem.

Crash:
It doesn't matter if one person or many people said those kinds of comments, they should have known the rules ahead of time on what to post. Its like banning fireplaces in a national park, because people didn't know how to start a fire. Again, moderation should keep those problems in check. Since it is their job.

But overall, I did this because not everyone was happy about the whole thing. Some people were pissed off about the whole thing. Which is why I want to Compromise over the whole thing so that this won't happen again. What you are doing it limit some people for another, which usually makes you look like a dick to the people you disregard. So a line between two groups is a better solution, in my opinion, then just ignoring one group of people over another.

 

[Jethro]

Ugg, I should have posted this at a different time. Now I have to reply to all of these.

Fr0Z3nR:
In a way, the "prediction game" does have use in this community. It give the community a past time while at the forums.

Or, if people are bored while on this particular forum, they could just... not post...?

This always seems to puzzle me. If I don't have anything useful to add to the conversation/thread, I'll just... not post.

I mean, it's different if it was like, a thread about organizing a TF2M meet up, or if anyone's going to an event, or discussion about a recent film, or even linking some Youtube videos. That type of stuff belongs and works fine in an off-topic forum. But stuff like "the prediction game" or the "three-word story" is just an excuse to spam for no real reason other than boredom. There's so much more constructive things you could be doing.

 

[Beef Bucket]

Perhaps a Prediction Game type thing could find a place in a Dischord channel, where people coming to dicking around is expected

 

[Crash]

Crash:
It doesn't matter if one person or many people said those kinds of comments, they should have known the rules ahead of time on what to post. Its like banning fireplaces in a national park, because people didn't know how to start a fire. Again, moderation should keep those problems in check. Since it is their job.

You're right, it is my job to keep the problem in check. The problem is now in check.

But overall, I did this because not everyone was happy about the whole thing. Some people were pissed off about the whole thing. Which is why I want to Compromise over the whole thing so that this won't happen again. What you are doing it limit some people for another, which usually makes you look like a dick to the people you disregard. So a line between two groups is a better solution, in my opinion, then just ignoring one group of people over another.

"I think you are a dick for locking that thread" is what you are trying to say . Let's not hide behind some facade of there being a ton of people with a problem here. You and maybe 2 other people seem to be the only ones bothered by the thread getting locked.

 

[killohurtz]

It give the community a past time while at the forums.

That's what we have a chatroom for - it's a much more effective place to socialize than a forum thread, anyway. (That being said: forum rules still apply in the chatroom. You can go there to chat and have fun, but don't bring the prediction game with you.)

Its like banning fireplaces in a national park, because people didn't know how to start a fire.

I hate to break it to you, but this is exactly how rules are made in public places. Why should we have to deal with people acting inappropriately when we can stop them from doing so in the first place?

 

[Bud Calypso]

...having it constantly pop up on the front page, being the first thing seen by visitors to the site, was silly.

This is not to underestimate. As one that is more active in tests than on the forums, I can imagine that for someone who doesn't know this community better, there is a chance you get the wrong impression. If you compare the frequency of comments on threads like these to the frequency of feedback given to maps you may ask yourself: 'why even bother'.

I should have posted this at a different time.

If you are really 18, it shouldn't be too long ago that you had an argument with your parents and wondered why they suddenly screamed at you.
It's because no matter how right you might have been or felt, your timing to keep on discussing was objectively wrong.

No hard feelings.

Cheers

 

[Strandedpasta]

Crash:
Ok, I'd admit it. To me, what you did was a dick move. I'm not saying you are a bad person, nor that you are doing a bad job. Its just that you took the situation into your own hands without the consent of the people on the thread. Ik that you have infinite power and shet, but its just a warning or a discussion before hand would make a situation like this more suitable and less destructive. Judging by how you react towards it, I apologize, completely.


But what it sees to go down to is two concept that I don't feel like continuing on about. Perspective, and Human Nature.

Perspective is a bitch. Some people find fun in ways other people can't imagine. Stuff like the "prediction game" is one of those things. Some people have fun doing that sort of thing. Sometimes because it is the only pastime they can think of, other times because "why not?". But overall, participating into these games is harmless, unless you broke the rules of course. Which is why I want to find that middle ground. So that game can just exist for fun, and so we can have a strong community. There is no "Thread Game" specific community to do this kind of stuff with. These games are usually built into the website as a whole.

While Human Nature is just the problem were people figure out who the blame. Its like Gun control, dear god I wish I didn't say that. People rather blame the gun and ban it all together, or they blame the criminals and just punish them. I don't want to go too deep into this kind of crap, but I just hope you know what I mean.

But overall, I see there are more people who want it gone then there are who want it to stay. And though I'm fine with that decision, I just want to figure out a way to make this community better in terms of laws. Like I made this so we can define what is considered Useful and Spam-like, and on if there is some sort of way to keep spam games without the problems that it has. So that people later down the line wont repeat this sort of thing. Not just another complaint you guys can stomp on me for.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

But overall, I see there are more people who want it gone then there are who want it to stay. And though I'm fine with that decision, I just want to figure out a way to make this community better in terms of laws. Like I made this so we can define what is considered Useful and Spam-like, and on if there is some sort of way to keep spam games without the problems that it has. So that people later down the line wont repeat this sort of thing. Not just another complaint you guys can stomp on me for.

Definitions of Useful and spam like are outlined in the TF2 Rules thread - See #3, 6, 8, 1 and most importantly, 5.

Reflect on these, young padawan, for they will help guide you forward in your life.

EDIT: Also, protip, if you have to start your arguement with "In a way...." you need to go back recheck your case for the arguement. It's a weak starting point.

 

[Strandedpasta]

Definitions of Useful and spam like are outlined in the TF2 Rules thread - See #3, 6, 8, 1 and most importantly, 5.

Reflect on these, young padawan, for they will help guide you forward in your life.

EDIT: Also, protip, if you have to start your arguement with "In a way...." you need to go back recheck your case for the arguement. It's a weak starting point.

Wow. . . I've been reading the wrong rule book.
I've been looking at the Terms and Rules this entire time.

Please forgive me. . .

 

[Erk]

Definitions of Useful and spam like are outlined in the TF2 Rules thread - See #3, 6, 8, 1 and most importantly, 5.

Reflect on these, young padawan, for they will help guide you forward in your life.

Fr0z3nR, I think a lot of new people have trouble understanding the rules of this site, because they simply can't find the thread.

For new people, they don't actually see the rule thread until it's after they break the rules.

I mean, you go to the Forums section and you see off topic posts and general threads that don't give the best examples of how to act on the site. So, people copy that in a monkey-see, monkey-do kind of strategy.

Just my thoughts, want to hear your side.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Fr0z3nR, I think a lot of new people have trouble understanding the rules of this site, because they simply can't find the thread.

For new people, they don't actually see the rule thread until it's after they break the rules.

I mean, you go to the Forums section and you see off topic posts and general threads that don't give the best examples of how to act on the site. So, people copy that in a monkey-see, monkey-do kind of strategy.

Just my thoughts, want to hear your side.

Didn't @Geit (or maybe even me) set it as a pop up for new users so that they are directed to it when they start.

 

[Strandedpasta]

No no no, its not your guy's fault. I just forgot the rules and then found a different set of rules in the help button at the bottom of the screen.

 

[Erk]

Didn't @Geit (or maybe even me) set it as a pop up for new users so that they are directed to it when they start.

Yes, and I read it then, 4 months ago. But I think people, err, forget the rules of the forums.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Its just that you took the situation into your own hands without the consent of the people on the thread.

Actually when the people in that thread signed up for the site and read the rules, they agreed to be moderated.

 

[Strandedpasta]

Actually when the people in that thread signed up for the site and read the rules, they agreed to be moderated.

Ik, I'm just saying that it could have been done way better then just straight up lock after one random guy made a mistake.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Ik, I'm just saying that it could have been done way better then just straight up lock after one random guy made a mistake.

(And the point that is being made is that it wasn't because of that one guy, it was a long-standing pile of stuff. This one person pushed it over the edge.

/me puts away staff hat)