This Seems Rather Sniper-Friendly

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Dr. KillPatient, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. Dr. KillPatient

    Dr. KillPatient L3: Member

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    Over 3500 units of sniper sightlines and counting. Ah dis is bad. :facepalm:
    I'm looking for a decent way to obstruct them and still keep the alpine theme and symmetry. I'd like to start going to the left or right for the final points (mid is at the orange building, the other two are in the houses) but I see no way to do so. Any ideas?
    And why not, while looking this over feel free to point out any other balance mistakes, as I'm sure I've made quite a few.

    Here are screenshots:
    From one side
    [​IMG]

    Overview (the red line goes under the platform in the middle, not through it)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  2. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    The sometimes-overused phallic rock props, perhaps? I think someone made an alpine version.
     
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  3. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

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    My humble suggestion:

    [​IMG]

    Black blocks are doorways. The stuff I added is all from a top-down perspective and don't match the perspective, but I hope you get the idea.

    The added building by the cap point can have a ramp up it or not, or be a sealed building, or it could just be a hill. Effectively the suggestion is to raise the height of that area to block LoS across the map, which keeps the use of it as open area (though doing so might mean a shift to favour other classes, like demo or soldier who can easily take advantage of raised elevation).

    Or you could just add one wall (either the S-shaped one or the straight one on the back) which keeps the C-shaped platform intact. Of course, a free standing wall might look a little strange, so you'd probably need to disguise it as a minecart track support, granary conveyor or something along those lines.

    [Edit] Oh, and of course there's always the "park a truck over it" solution: plop one of the dumptrucks there instead of a freestanding wall.

    Kep
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  4. Dr. KillPatient

    Dr. KillPatient L3: Member

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    Good idea with the alternating doors, I'll likely incorporate that into the map.
    The problem with putting a building there, though, is that it will make the lower area of the point a lot harder to flank and in essence only give it two immediate entrances. The bottom can be crucial to control because there's a grate around it that allows sentries to shoot up through it from the lower floor in order to defend the point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  5. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Since the doorway is are fairly open, i wouldn't see a problem with putting a gate there. It wouldn't block immediate line of sight, but it does prevent firing range. Using the round gates would also reduce sticky trap effectiveness but not to the point where it's under powered.
     
  6. Bya

    Bya L1: Registered

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    Do you have a link or download?
    I'm working on an alpine map and some snowy penis rocks would be very helpful.
     
  7. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

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    You could raise the whole central area up on some displaced ground, a few hundred units should do the trick.

    I think these are the rocks being referred to: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=3367
    There's no snowy ones though, but if I remember correctly they have empty skin slots so you could make one for them.
     
  8. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Yeah, I meant the ones in BoyLee's link.
     
  9. Tapp

    Tapp L10: Glamorous Member

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    An automatic door would probably work best, as well as looking the most natural. It does seem that optimisation will be a small problem, though.
     
  10. Numerous

    Numerous L4: Comfortable Member

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    Protip: Displacements can be used to make a dip in the terrain, and cannot be shot through, effectively removing the line of sight. It doesn't have much of a problem in terms of optimisation, just add a nodraw block or 2 to seal the VIS up (or whatever it's called, I fail at optimisation).


    Come to think of it, valve does this. You know stage 2 goldrush? There's a dip on the exit to the right, for stage 2 BLU (who hijacked stage 1 RED base, if your memory is foggy).

    It might be hard to implement though, and I can't judge your map in 3D very well.

    Maybe not, I just reread your first post (I should really think out BEFORE I start writing, here).
    The (sort of) obvious solution to this is to use displacements to make a hill (ie a hill instead of a dip). This wouldn't stop snipers choosing to snipe from the top of the hill, but it would force them to get closer, and also make spies a bit more useful. Ultimately, you don't need to completely remove that sniper spot anyways, just make sure it's balanced and the risks match up to the possible gains. If they have a wider angle for people to attack them from, they're much much more vulnerable than normally.

    Also, to be honest the map looks rather open to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  11. megawac

    megawac L4: Comfortable Member

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    What I would do is make a tunnel instead of a gate and make the cliffs connect.... Kind of like this and a few more structures/props in the middle to cut long visibility.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  12. Dr. KillPatient

    Dr. KillPatient L3: Member

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    This a bit better? I've raised the center CP up 64 units on a hill (haven't made stairs up to it yet) and raised the patforms on the cliffsides near it. I've also placed rocks near the stairs to give a bit more cover as well as implemented Earkham's alternating door idea.
    EDIT: Curses stairs aren't too feasible now, they take up a lot of space in that area. Perhaps put bridges from the cliffside platforms to the point?
    EDIT 2: Yup, stairs will be a huge problem with any kind of hill. I'll try extending the building to the left and right...

    Overview
    [​IMG]

    From one side of the formerly 3500-unit-across area, now reduced to about 1600 units. You can also see how I've raised the cliffside platforms.
    [​IMG]

    From the other, by the tree
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010