The Future of Compensation for TF2 Mappers: A Community / Valve Discussion

[Fruity Snacks]

What if quick play only chose from servers running maps that are white- listed by reviewers that each client can select herself? Then you could simply subscribe to a reviewer whose tastes coincided with your own. And it would encourage participation in the map workshop/whatever with people trying to review quality maps.

If there was a map workshop where you could subscribe to maps, then have the browser look for servers that match your subbed maps. Could work?

But what about people who don't sub to workshop maps, or know they are there? We're back to square 1.

 

[nightwatch]

If there was a map workshop where you could subscribe to maps, then have the browser look for servers that match your subbed maps. Could work?

But what about people who don't sub to workshop maps, or know they are there? We're back to square 1.

Default goes to the person who has the most subscribers at the time of most recent update maybe?

 

[CommodoreKong]

If there was a map workshop where you could subscribe to maps, then have the browser look for servers that match your subbed maps. Could work?

But what about people who don't sub to workshop maps, or know they are there? We're back to square 1.

Valve doesn't seem to have a problem with multiple quickplay options, they could have a quickplay option for serious/professional custom maps (say maps like cp_Stonyridge or pl_Swiftwater) an option for less serious/professional maps (like Koth_Trainsawlaser or cp_Orange) or an option that you want to play both types of maps. You could also potentially have options for maps early in development that are in alpha and have dev textures, and near finished maps that are in beta/RC and look finished/professional. You could also have an option to look for servers running maps that you have subscribed to in the workshop.

Of course that would require map makers who upload the maps to properly tag maps and update the tags.

 

[EArkham]

You know, before ZPS died out, we were working on an automatic map rating system. As you loaded in, you'd see whether a map was official or an "unrated" community map in large letters. The rating was going to be either a percentile or five-star system. It was very easy to set up.

Some of the rating vectors could obviously be "number of times played," and "average player count," but also bonuses for "number of times server full when map ends."

The downside is that this is purely a popularity rating, and many good, well balanced maps won't get good ratings due to being unknown, while popular but unwanted ones like trade or orange maps will dominate the top scores.

But automatic ratings is not really a tremendously difficult thing to do.

 

[Grizzly Berry]

I live about 5 miles north of Bellevue and have been meaning to go visit Valve for awhile now. I think they're pretty welcoming of people asking a few questions, so maybe I could bring something to their attention if we can come up with anything.

 

[Kube]

I live about 5 miles north of Bellevue and have been meaning to go visit Valve for awhile now. I think they're pretty welcoming of people asking a few questions, so maybe I could bring something to their attention if we can come up with anything.

Oh, when you do, mind making a thread for us to post questions, or a poll on what you should focus your efforts on? Be our ambassador, Grizzly!

 

[Pocket]

ask them why they abandoned their GitHub bug tracker

 

[CommodoreKong]

I live about 5 miles north of Bellevue and have been meaning to go visit Valve for awhile now. I think they're pretty welcoming of people asking a few questions, so maybe I could bring something to their attention if we can come up with anything.

Yeah it would be great for someone to go to Valve again and get some follow up information to the OP, especially since Valve said they wanted to start adding a lot more maps but haven't added a single community map all of last year.

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

I feel Valve needs to give a lot more love to their throwaway game modes, like arena or special delivery. There are some great koth ctf maps that could have sd slapped on them and released (those maps where you have to stand with the flag on the central point.), and a few pure sd maps created. The gamemode is fine, I feel (the rocket part isn't needed, it could just be a single control point).

Also, arena maps. There are a crap ton of amazing maps (arena backlot) that could be added, and it pains me to see a great gamemode go to waste. No new maps since 2009, for shame valve.

 

[Pocket]

Yeah, why no love for Abe Lincoln's favorite gamemode?

 

[CommodoreKong]

I feel Valve needs to give a lot more love to their throwaway game modes, like arena or special delivery. There are some great koth ctf maps that could have sd slapped on them and released (those maps where you have to stand with the flag on the central point.), and a few pure sd maps created. The gamemode is fine, I feel (the rocket part isn't needed, it could just be a single control point).

Also, arena maps. There are a crap ton of amazing maps (arena backlot) that could be added, and it pains me to see a great gamemode go to waste. No new maps since 2009, for shame valve.

I wouldn't really call arena a "throw away game mode", at least not in the same sense I would consider SD or Medieval to be. Valve did release a decent number of arena maps (including a few community maps) but then released King of the Hill and focused on that mode. KotH is definitely a more TF2ish game mode then arena is IMO, and I think that's why Valve focuses on KotH over arena.

Honestly I doubt Valve would ever buy another arena map, I don't see them buying any maps for modes that they don't run servers for.

 

[Zed]

KotH is defiantly a more TF2ish game mode then arena is IMO

So it doesn't want to be?

 

[Vilepickle]

I see this hasn't changed much since I got out of the scene, shame. Making a level is definitely a labor of love, with 100-200+ hours of work for free. I'm sure some of the bigger projects have gone way over that. Level designers do a lot more work than item designers, at least in terms of time commitment.

Hopefully if there's ever a real TF3 they get it right on the whole picture of community modding, levels included.

 

[Psy]

I think Valve have done a pretty good job with community maps in CSGO, speaking from personal experience. It's a shame that TF2 community maps are more or less dead. :V

 

[Fruity Snacks]

... It's a shame that TF2 community maps are more or less dead. :V

We're still here and thats all that matters.

 

[Kube]

We're still here and thats all that matters.

As long as one person gets enjoyment from something, nothing's ever 'dead,' is it?

And there's still waaay too much for me to experience within the mapping community for me to stop here. I think it's the same way for a bunch of people, too.

Edit: I might want to work something out to give this thread a last hoorah, possibly in the form of an open letter from the community, that a bunch of people could 'sign'. Stay tuned to Kube.FMZ Radio! [insert catchy jingle here]

 

[Pocket]

I think Valve have done a pretty good job with community maps in CSGO, speaking from personal experience.

How does that game handle them, anyway? The implication I got from what I've read so far is that you have to pay for map packs, Call of Duty style, but that doesn't sound like something Valve would do and doesn't make much sense in a PC game where anyone can host a dedicated server running whatever map they like.

 

[Shogun]

Steve, the maps in CS:GO are released in Operations, with the most recent being Operation Vanguard. Anyone can play the maps whenever they want for free, both casually and in competitive matchmaking. Those who choose to can buy "Mission Passes" which allow for the owner to complete different missions every day (ex: get x ammount of kills on this map/ gamemode). By completing a mission, the owner of the pass is rewarded with a weapon skin, and with some of the weapon skins being extremely valuable (think $300 plus) many, many people purchase Mission Passes. The funds from the Mssion Passes go to the creators of the maps chosen to be part of the Operation. You will also recieve a virtual token which you can display on your profile, ranked Bronze, Silver, and Gold depending on how many missions you have completed. It is a very good system.

 

[Zed]

CS:GO's system doesn't really seem like something that would work with TF2, though.

 

[Kube]

I want to make the point that we ourselves can't forget our role as a community of people that both love TF2 and have some influence over the community, especially with some members' ties to competitive. Even if new policy isn't accepted by Valve and put into the game officially, that still doesn't mean a new map-featuring system can't survive and thrive outside of Valve's domain. Let me explain with an example:

The TF2Maps community compiles a list of noteworthy, completed, custom maps monthly. Servers sign up to feature these maps, say, every Friday. Personally, I value the server as a place that many less-experienced players (as well as veterans) may know about and 'favorite' in their server search. I feel as if many players would be willing to try custom maps if a) file sizes are low and b) they can get into a nearly-full server playing the map.

I am beginning to think that the TF2 community is starting to debase the value it has in sheer numbers. Many people seem to think that "TF2 is dying" yet still continue to play (and spread) the game. I think that if, with a few big moves from a couple of big players in the game (popular YouTubers, server owners, even [and especially] Valve), we can brush the dirt off our shoulder and show dose COD fanboys wut tf2 b aboat!

Also, please shut me up if I begin to rant on this thread. I think I deserve to know that I've said enough on the issue, so just tell me when.