PL Tanker b3

made by iiboharz. who is a cutiepie

  1. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    Third place winner of the TF2Maps 72hr Winter Special mapping contest.

    Thanks to..
    The cp_snowplow team for use of their assets.
    Ravidge for their additional handrails.
    Yggdrasil for their "Have A Coffee! You Can Sleep When You're Dead!" poster and Crash for uploading it.
    Taxicat for helping me with the skybox texture.

    annd last but not least, everyone who's provided me with helpful feedback.

    Changelog:
    Code:
    ==== Post Contest ====
    29 June 2015
    pl_tanker_b3
    ----------------------
    - Huge overhaul of third!
    - detailing
    - redid the bomb-pit brushwork as i was unsatisfied with its construction
    - Fixed some buildings whose outside-facing walls were only 16u thick (should be 32u, interior walls 16u)
    - adjusted cart path after first for better cart movement
    - changed wind settings!
    - RETURN OF THE TANKER (NEW 3D SKYBOX!)
    - NEW SKYBOX TEXTURE! NEW ENVIRONMENT LIGHTING AND FOG!
    - a ton of undocumented changes because this is a huge update
    
    4 June 2015
    pl_tanker_b2b
    ----------------------
    - fixed ridiculous respawn times
    
    pl_tanker_b2a
    ----------------------
    - massive optimization pass (HUGE THANKS TO PSY FOR HELPING ME WITH THIS <3 <3)
    - re-added the popular doorway between 2nd and 3rd (however it is now locked until third is capped)
    - extended setup time by 10 seconds
    - changed spawn times
    - lowered the room overlooking last
    - tore apart red spawn and restructured the exits
    - empty cart in BLU spawn is no longer in a frustrating position
    - more detailing
    - replaced cinderblock textures with bricks
    - fixed inconsistent wall thickness in BLU spawn
    - expanded platform immediately to the left after first
    - fixed sightline between first & second
    - a bunch-a lil' changes i cannot for the life of me remember
    
    30 May 2015
    pl_tanker_b1
    ----------------------
    - Beta!
    - more detailing
    - extended the maps boundaries for more detailing before the 3d skybox
    - deleted existing 3D skybox, will redo in a future update
    - nobuild on top of a crate right outside BLU spawn (sorry egan!)
    - replaced the pipe near third with a fence (+more space next to the cart)
    - the map room's windows at last are now very tight to shoot through (and some are completely blocked)
    - placed a nobuild on top of a wall near last (nice find engineers)
    - snow on rooftops!
    - removed a doorway which was a popular route between 2nd and 3rd (sorry everyone!)
    - optimized! a LOT less useless visleaves since the area under the map (disps) is no longer mostly hollow!
    - some changes to geometry in the first area to improve gameplay for both attacking and defending teams
    - made many changes to the first control point building
    - added hampshire's heavy poster (<3)
    
    25 May 2015
    pl_tanker_a11
    ----------------------
    - all 4 windows at last have glass in them again
    - the gap in that one pipe near third is now inpenetrable (should've been long ago)
    - adjusted terrain around third
    - fixed MANY doorframe props sticking out from the wall (and thus causing collision issues)
    - added crates next to the "METAL" sign near first to help players be able to climb onto a platform
    - 3D skybox changes
    - lots of detailing
    - rm hay
    - lots of clipping
    - some props positions have been adjusted slightly
    
    12 May 2015
    pl_tanker_a10/pl_tanker_a10a
    ----------------------
    - lowered the wooden structure outside of blu spawn by 16 units so scouts can jump up to it from behind
    - detailing
    - removed the snow (it looked ugly)
    - new courtyard which wraps around the right side of last
    - minor geometry changes in areas between first and second
    - remade the one building that the cart track passes through before third, is now much more square and has two floors
    - some other things i cant remember lol
    - removed particle manifest (snow removed for now)
    
    11 April 2015
    pl_tanker_a9a
    ----------------------
    - fixed a brushface which shouldn't have had nodraw on it
    - updated particle manifest
    
    pl_tanker_a9
    ----------------------
    - sightlines
    - made the detour around the rock after first wider to give players more room around the cart
    - rm respawnroomvisualizer from THE DOOR
    - minor lighting changes (env lighting)
    - geometry changes in the big red building
    - widened some doorways
    - removed one of the windows from the wooden building at last
    - made one of the windows in the new building at last into a doorway that leads to a balcony
    - rm one of red's spawn doors
    - gave red more defensive options for first and second
    - defending team now cannot shoot into blu's first spawn zone
    - moved third cap back where it was in a5
    - moved first and second caps forward slightly
    - more healthkits for blu at last
    - upgraded the healthkit next to third to a medium
    - updated particle manifest
    
    7 April 2015
    pl_tanker_a8
    ----------------------
    - retextured much of the big blue building
    - detailing
    - fixed some incorrectly constructed buildings
    - massively reworked the layout of the area past 2nd
    - modified the cart path, it now routes through the brick building before third instead of going right past it
    - New interior at last.
    - updated particle manifest
    
    1 March 2015
    pl_tanker_a7a (hotfix compile)
    ----------------------
    - packed missing skybox tree models
    - missing clip brushes
    - updated particle manifest
    
    pl_tanker_a7
    ----------------------
    - optimized (large areaportals)
    - made the one way door outside of RED spawn close after BLU caps B/second
    - massively revised last, moved around RED's spawn to better direct players
    - moved resupply cabinet in BLU's forward spawn to not be so close to the door
    - fixed an exploit that let you survive falling off the cliff (missing trigger_hurt)
    - fixed missing collisions on models
    - players can no longer perch behind the cliff fences
    - continued working on the 3D skybox
    - continued detailing
    - sightlines
    - moved spectator cameras
    - made the ramp before second shallower
    - upgraded the ammo pack in the hut at last to a medium
    - downgraded the full healthkit near third to a medium
    - fixed skinning on some wood_fence_* props
    - added a nobuild brush in some areas
    - added a "no entry" door to BLU's forward spawn which opens once the second point is capped to signify that it's closed off
    - updated particle manifest
    
    25 February 2015
    pl_tanker_a6
    ----------------------
    - post contest, removed 72 from the map name
    - more detail
    - adjusted fog & shadows
    - clipped off the thing above the exit of red spawn
    - moved the spectator camera watching blu spawn
    - removed a stupidly placed blockbullets brush
    - extended out of bounds areas
    - optimized
    - brush optimization
    - made the deathpit kill trigger neater (not just one huge brush that encompasses the bottom of the level)
    - removed RED's forward spawn, instead did a badwater-style spawn where RED spawns in the same location but with different routes available
    - BLU forward spawn
    - added a new flank that wraps around the third cap
    - slightly modified the layout around third cap
    - modified the track after the second cap
    - cleaned up sightline across second cap
    - restarted the 3D skybox, simple blocking out
    - sealed the map
    - changed the snowcat to use vphysics instead of a custom blockbullets brush because that was stupid
    - slightly modified layout at first
    - moved third forward, distance between third and final is now more akin to Badwater
    - moved second back a bit
    - updated particle manifest
    
    ==== 72hr Contest ====
    
    26 January 2015
    pl_tanker_72_a5
    ----------------------
    - more detailing
    - fixed broken blu forward spawn HOPEFULLY THESE SPAWNS DON'T GLITCH ANYMORE
    - cleaned up sightlines around first
    - moved the "have a coffee" poster
    - made the finale pit thing more actual payload-y
    
    25 January 2015
    pl_tanker_72_a4
    ----------------------
    - detailed, a lot
    - started a 3D skybox because why not
    - general optimization
    - made the building at last taller and clipped the roof
    - more obvious glass at last on red spawn windows
    - removed redundant pathway
    - added snow particles
    - tightened up the hallway that first is in
    
    pl_tanker_72_a3
    ----------------------
    - added a new flank that goes around the second cap
    - more ammo/metal around the map
    - red now starts at forward spawn and once the first CP is capped they get pushed back
    -- forward spawn then becomes blu's but still locked until they cap second
    -- uses similar logic to upward.
    - gave red more cover coming out of last spawn
    - gave red a one way route that lets them get behind the attacking team
    - added spectator cameras
    - rejiggered the layout at first
    
    24 January 2015
    pl_tanker_72_a2
    ----------------------
    - optimized doorways with areaportals
    - fixed red spawn doors
    - added rocks for cover/to break up the space
    - fixed blu forward spawn
    - added a building to break up the playspace on last
    - added more health and ammo near last
    - added an additional red spawn closer to the final cap
    
    pl_tanker_72_a1
    ----------------------
    - no changes, first release
    
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2015
  2. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    Alpha 6 released!
    Code:
    pl_tanker_a6
    ----------------------
    - post contest, removed 72 from the map name
    - more detail
    - adjusted fog & shadows
    - clipped off the thing above the exit of red spawn
    - moved the spectator camera watching blu spawn
    - removed a stupidly placed blockbullets brush
    - extended out of bounds areas
    - optimized
    - brush optimization
    - made the deathpit kill trigger neater (not just one huge brush that encompasses the bottom of the level)
    - removed RED's forward spawn, instead did a badwater-style spawn where RED spawns in the same location but with different routes available
    - BLU forward spawn
    - added a new flank that wraps around the third cap
    - slightly modified the layout around third cap
    - modified the track after the second cap
    - cleaned up sightline across second cap
    - restarted the 3D skybox, simple blocking out
    - sealed the map
    - changed the snowcat to use vphysics instead of a custom blockbullets brush because that was stupid
    - slightly modified layout at first
    - moved third forward, distance between third and final is now more akin to Badwater
    - moved second back a bit
    - updated particle manifest
    
     
  3. CommodoreKong

    CommodoreKong L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    329
    Positive Ratings:
    297
    I got a chance to play the Alpha 5 of this map and I was pretty impressed, I thought it had a good solid foundation to be a good payload map. The biggest issues we had in the games I played was that the final point was maybe too small and easily defendable for the red team, and the one way door near the final really seemed to be a major distraction for the attacking team, since red would build a sentry and then open the door briefly, it seemed like half the time blu was more focused on trying to kill that sentry even though there wouldn't really be an gain from doing that.

    I look forward to playing future versions of the map. I think this map has a lot of potential.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    Yeah that one way door has been replaced with something completely different + there's a new flank for BLU to use on third and last so I expect Alpha 6 to play a lot better.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New release!
    Code:
    pl_tanker_a7
    ----------------------
    - optimized (large areaportals)
    - made the one way door outside of RED spawn close after BLU caps B/second
    - massively revised last, moved around RED's spawn to better direct players
    - moved resupply cabinet in BLU's forward spawn to not be so close to the door
    - fixed an exploit that let you survive falling off the cliff (missing trigger_hurt)
    - fixed missing collisions on models
    - players can no longer perch behind the cliff fences
    - continued working on the 3D skybox
    - continued detailing
    - sightlines
    - moved spectator cameras
    - made the ramp before second shallower
    - upgraded the ammo pack in the hut at last to a medium
    - downgraded the full healthkit near third to a medium
    - fixed skinning on some wood_fence_* props
    - added a nobuild brush in some areas
    - added a "no entry" door to BLU's forward spawn which opens once the second point is capped to signify that it's closed off
    - updated particle manifest
    
     
  6. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

    Messages:
    926
    Positive Ratings:
    253
    Played this on the gameday.

    Really a nice map. It's cool, it's reasonably balanced, it has a great theme, I like it!
     
  7. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

    Messages:
    7,099
    Positive Ratings:
    5,736
    The first 3 points have nowhere for red to fall back to. No safe area for them to set up their next defense, it's all just one long massively open, massively flat expanse from that first corner all the way to that final spammy building.

    In fact, spectating it now, there is literally nothing between 2nd and 3rd except a few sprinkled props. It's just one massive flat expanse.

    It's a very well disguised "prop sprinkle" map. It doesn't seem like one initially, but it is. There isn't any variation in geometry, all of the (albeit small) variations come from sprinkled props. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it creates an illusion of variation where none really exists.

    Someone mentioned how no one is using the "new flank" that takes blu to the back of the satellite dish building. My immediate response was "well, it's not a flank. It takes blu from behind the cart, along a longer route and takes them to....behind the cart" For where the cart stalls normally, that route serves literally no purpose.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New release! Will update screenshots when I've got a moment.
    Code:
    pl_tanker_a8
    ----------------------
    - retextured much of the big blue building
    - detailing
    - fixed some incorrectly constructed buildings
    - massively reworked the layout of the area past 2nd
    - modified the cart path, it now routes through the brick building before third instead of going right past it
    - New interior at last.
    
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015
  9. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

    Messages:
    1,225
    Positive Ratings:
    978
    Some quick feedback:
    - Health pickups become EXTREMELY scarce after the second point. I found 2 small health packs and that was all there seemed to be.

    - I really don't like BLU's first spawn for a few reasons.
    [​IMG]
    Let's start with this. The setup gates are just right there. No cover or inbetween whatsoever. I also don't like how you go from a room with a low ceiling straight into one with a very high ceiling. It feels jarring, in a way.
    [​IMG]
    The complete lack of cover also becomes an issue here, because the area outside is relatively flat. There's a couple of sightlines running straight into this exit, which will probably make using the upper exit to the spawn that much more difficult after the round has started.

    My recommendation? Add some cover to the spawn! Add some walls to break it up a bit more! It feels like you've tried to cram it all into a very small space.

    Also, instead of a shutter, maybe have something like this very detailed and professional illustration I've created.[​IMG]
    I feel like it would flow a bit better that way.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  10. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New release! Still haven't updated screenshots, oops.
    Code:
    pl_tanker_a9a
    ----------------------
    - fixed a brushface which shouldn't have had nodraw on it
    - updated particle manifest
    
    pl_tanker_a9
    ----------------------
    - sightlines
    - made the detour around the rock after first wider to give players more room around the cart
    - rm respawnroomvisualizer from THE DOOR
    - minor lighting changes (env lighting)
    - geometry changes in the big red building
    - widened some doorways
    - removed one of the windows from the wooden building at last
    - made one of the windows in the new building at last into a doorway that leads to a balcony
    - rm one of red's spawn doors
    - gave red more defensive options for first and second
    - defending team now cannot shoot into blu's first spawn zone
    - moved third cap back where it was in a5
    - moved first and second caps forward slightly
    - more healthkits for blu at last
    - upgraded the healthkit next to third to a medium
    - updated particle manifest
    
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  11. Jethro

    Jethro MUSty Complainer

    Messages:
    287
    Positive Ratings:
    252
    Leaving you some feedback, as I've been neglecting to do this for a while
    [​IMG]
    I like the elevated doorway here, and the general left side on this picture, however I feel the ramp there sticks out a bit. Like, it doesn't really feel like it fits, plus it makes the already cramped area even more cramped around the cart.

    [​IMG]
    I've been trying to think of something to suggest for this area. The only thought I've had is maybe try bringing the pit up a level? Like, as it is the cart goes down two levels already, with BLU being essentially gunned down from all directions. I'm not sure what you'd do with the lower spawn if you did this, but I feel this might be worth a try?

    [​IMG]
    I'm a fan of this area generally, but it's fairly hard to defend this area as RED. I think it is good that you don't have the door unlocked for RED at this point, but it still means that usually by the time RED respawns, they've already pushed to the penultimate point.

    and finally

    [​IMG]

    This thing still doesn't move. [​IMG]
     
  12. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

    Messages:
    1,453
    Positive Ratings:
    234
    We played this with 32 players on Last Friday night - that hill in slide # 2 is a bitch to get up with the payload.

    There was something about leaving red spawn that was also annoying - I think it was that I couldn't run back inside to get more ammo as an engie quickly.
     
  13. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New update! Tanker a10/a10a!

    Code:
    pl_tanker_a10/pl_tanker_a10a
    ----------------------
    - lowered the wooden structure outside of blu spawn by 16 units so scouts can jump up to it from behind
    - detailing
    - removed the snow (it looked ugly)
    - new courtyard which wraps around the right side of last
    - minor geometry changes in areas between first and second
    - remade the one building that the cart track passes through before third, is now much more square and has two floors
    - some other things i cant remember lol
    - removed particle manifest (snow removed for now)
    
    still haven't updated the screenshots because i'm lazy af.
     
  14. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New release! Nearly beta! :O
    Code:
    pl_tanker_a11
    ----------------------
    - all 4 windows at last have glass in them again
    - the gap in that one pipe near third is now inpenetrable (should've been long ago)
    - adjusted terrain around third
    - fixed MANY doorframe props sticking out from the wall (and thus causing collision issues)
    - added crates next to the "METAL" sign near first to help players be able to climb onto a platform
    - 3D skybox changes
    - lots of detailing
    - rm hay
    - lots of clipping
    - new room which overlooks last
    - some props positions have been adjusted slightly
    
    Updated screenshots finally!
     
  15. Egan

    aa Egan

    Messages:
    1,291
    Positive Ratings:
    1,452
    Hey IIbo, I have some things to say about tanker before you get into beta, especially things about C and the area onwards to D because I feel like those are not great at the moment.

    I did it all in video format because I don't have concrete thoughts about things yet - the map is big so it will take me a while to play to get solid opinions:

    A Point:


    B Point:


    C Point:


    D Point:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2015
  16. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New release! Now in beta!
    Code:
    30 May 2015
    pl_tanker_b1
    ----------------------
    - Beta!
    - more detailing
    - extended the maps boundaries for more detailing before the 3d skybox
    - deleted existing 3D skybox, will redo in a future update
    - nobuild on top of a crate right outside BLU spawn (sorry egan!)
    - replaced the pipe near third with a fence (+more space next to the cart)
    - the map room's windows at last are now very tight to shoot through (and some are completely blocked)
    - placed a nobuild on top of a wall near last (nice find engineers)
    - snow on rooftops!
    - removed a doorway which was a popular route between 2nd and 3rd (sorry everyone!)
    - optimized! a LOT less useless visleaves since the area under the map (disps) is no longer mostly hollow!
    - some changes to geometry in the first area to improve gameplay for both attacking and defending teams
    - made many changes to the first control point building
    - added hampshire's heavy poster (<3)
    
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. Turbo Lover

    aa Turbo Lover Fight me under Glasgow Central Station

    Messages:
    333
    Positive Ratings:
    317
    [​IMG]

    Successfully attacking or defending last seems really dependent on which team holds this area of the map: the team holding it has the high ground advantage and can effectively lock the other team into much less desirable locations.

    In the event that BLU is holding this area, then the less desirable location RED is effectively stuck in is their spawn, given that two of the three spawn exits, the two which are easily visible and accessible, are easily within line of sight from the window overlooking last, the one that Engineers love building in and is near impossible to clear out, and the path the cart takes. Even the lower exit is a poor choice as it's not very sneaky and leads to roughly the same place as the other two exits, but on much lower ground.

    The defensibility of last is also compromised by how small the area is, there is little to no breathing room for defenders, they're just sandwiched in between spawn and the enemy. As a result there's no side rooms or alcoves for prospective Engineers to set up a proper nest in, the lower ground has an extremely limited view of attackers and the flank area is too distant to be of any real use.

    But let's say RED have successfully held this area, and BLU are now holed up in a similarly untenable position.

    [​IMG]

    From what I've seen, once BLU take up residence in this building, perhaps setting up a teleporter in its upper area, it's very difficult for them to leave this building, including via the way they came in. Once enough of the BLU team is clustered in this building, they've literally cornered themselves, the forward facing exit is large, open, and lacks any form of cover besides the cart. The concentration of players inside this corner building leaves a path open and uncontested for RED to flank and seal off the side exit to this building, leaving BLU trapped inside.

    [​IMG]

    I would suggest expanding the finale zone to be less cramped and giving more of a height advantage to RED, it is their final point after all, it should be difficult to attack. Honestly, I'm not sure why it's so small in the first place, you've got huge amounts of room back there. And maybe this will create some use for that flank you have, which is currently almost entirely unused.

    I'd also make the corner building more of a worthwhile staging area for BLU to attack from, more health inside, more cover outside, more difficult to flank.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  18. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz Meme Queen

    Messages:
    688
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    New release I guess:

    Code:
    4 June 2015
    pl_tanker_b2b
    ----------------------
    - fixed ridiculous respawn times
    
    pl_tanker_b2a
    ----------------------
    - massive optimization pass (HUGE THANKS TO PSY FOR HELPING ME WITH THIS <3 <3)
    - re-added the popular doorway between 2nd and 3rd (however it is now locked until third is capped)
    - extended setup time by 10 seconds
    - changed spawn times
    - lowered the room overlooking last
    - tore apart red spawn and restructured the exits
    - empty cart in BLU spawn is no longer in a frustrating position
    - more detailing
    - replaced cinderblock textures with bricks
    - fixed inconsistent wall thickness in BLU spawn
    - expanded platform immediately to the left after first
    - fixed sightline between first & second
    - a bunch-a lil' changes i cannot for the life of me remember
    
     
  19. Auwi

    aa Auwi Certified in best in fun

    Messages:
    186
    Positive Ratings:
    506
  20. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,019
    Positive Ratings:
    3,943
    From what I played of this I like it. I think the detailing is really good too, which is impressive because as I understand it you're new! Here's some ideas/suggestions/observations:

    KEEP IN MIND I PLAYED THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME JUST NOW, TWICE ONLY!!!!!!!!

    You've got kind of a gross sightline on the first point, but I don't think it's actually that bad. The first thing I would do is here:

    [​IMG]

    Your detailing means snipers can stand behind these stairs and get a great view of everything, then either come up the stairs or to the side to snipe. My instinct would be to solidify this platform, then I'd probably add a stupid little wall just to block them some more. I don't think it's that powerful a spot, but it does feel unfair, and good snipers will always find weird spots to snipe from anyway so who cares.

    Another contributor is on the other side of first.

    The way I see first you have two problems: one, the sniper sightline kinda sucks (although it isn't horrible, many official maps have much worse ones and they play fine). The other problem is your routes. Your "main" route is the cart path, which isn't that big, and then two flanks, which are also small. One of the flanks essentially merges with the cart path as well, albeit slightly higher, but it's still in a little building that makes the entire flanking situation worse. Both flanks are small and dangerous (one because of cramped splash, the other because of death pits).

    I was thinking something like this could help, but I don't know if I really love it. More substantial changes may need to be made.

    [​IMG]

    The idea here is to give BLU flankers a more solid way around the outside. That little fence just isn't enough, and this way players can completely avoid the snipers if need be. It also would help your theme to become more Industrial Snowy Upward if you have ramps and shit along death pits. The problem is you still can't push second from here, because it puts you farther back and makes it easier to spam.

    The second problem I mentioned earlier actually ties into issues with the second point. It's extremely hard to cap because it's uphill, has an auto rollback, and RED team can dominate the entire fucking thing so easily. Oh my god. (I didn't take a screenshot for some reason, but in this shot RED has such an easy time controlling this entire back area that BLU has a very limited set of ways up to second, and actually even pretty limited ways of attack. I would consider limiting RED's ability to control that so easily.)

    My suggestion is a ramp/door in here:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Then get rid of the boxes that would be under that new bridge/platform. This gives BLU a way to instantly get height advantage on that small area, but RED can't get up there as easily. To avoid spam around the first point it might be wise to set the stairs back further, or behind a wall with a window/chickenwire/whatever.

    (The other thing about those boxes is that they suck. Getting onto that wall as BLU is really important, and having to do a couple jumps every time means you die, especially since RED has a trivial time getting on that red roofed hut right next to it. Actually, trick jumps in general are kinda stupid for main routes like this; I think Crash's latest changes to Glassworks really kind of spell out why.)

    I didn't get to play much of the middle of the map, but I hope to eventually because it looks cool. It felt like RED was getting wiped at second and rolled until last which is pretty typical for maps that are super easy to defend: RED holes up hard in some corner, get wrecked, the point is capped, and then 20s respawn fucks RED over and BLU players go far forward to mess with RED players, forcing RED to hold further back than they would have if the game was going smoother. This isn't necessarily bad--plenty of maps do it, but they don't do it all the time. If adjusting second doesn't help defenders regroup at the 3rd point easily enough, you should think about why that is.

    The last point kind of sucks. I don't agree with the earlier feedback about moving the pit up one level, but I do think the bottom of the pit should be better and more interesting. The problem is you risk looking like Badwater or Boundary.

    [​IMG]

    This corner is the problem. It's the only way RED has out of the base, and it's a shitty 90 degree turn with props and stairs and a cart going through it. BLU has no viable flanks into or around this area, except using the windows from the spytech room (suicidal unless you are a spy).

    There's this area for RED to leave by

    [​IMG]

    and I definitely liked that you can do the jump from the barrel or the rock, but it's impractical for RED to leave this way, and slower. There's really no reason. I know it exists for BLU: you want BLU to have an easier time getting in. But the corner stops that, because an engie and a couple players can watch and control every entrance and exit there. In fact, there's basically no reason to even really use that area right now.

    [​IMG]

    These barrels don't really do enough. I tried drawing this, but I'm bad, so here goes: I would consider raising the floor to meet the higher ledge in the back. I'd move the door on the left up, and probably to the left (from the viewer's perspective) or remove the door entirely. You can probably cut the lower route in the next room entirely or reduce it to a hallway, but either way that's another thing that helps RED control this area I think.

    I'd get rid of the metal and boxes here

    [​IMG]

    then maybe move the track where the boxes were and put a ramp up to the door (so that BLU can use the ramp easier than RED) against the wall.

    Like this:
    Code:
     |¯|
    |¯¯¯¯¯¯╲
    ##### choo choo #####
    idk if that makes any sense and maybe the idea sucks

    Anyway, I think you should rethink those connectors and figure out a way to keep RED further back, defending their base from their base rather than ahead of it, as that's what leads to wipes. One way to do this would be to make the red base larger. In fact, looking at your map from above, it's kind of small. You have tons of room to move the RED base around, make it roomier, and give defenders a reason to care about it.

    Here's some misc stuff:

    ok well cya
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3