Stark b3

[YM]

what is this, do you think you're icarus or something?

you can say that when it becomes pl, arena and ctf. until then zip it (or else go apply that joke to mangy and see what he says.)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

PLR_Stark

TC_Stark


do want

 

[HeaH]

This isn't Stark, this is Yukon in the snow!

 

[lana]

But Yukon's point is below the bridge.

 

[YM]

But Yukon's point is below the bridge.

He means Yukon's 2nd point not it's mid.

 

[YM]

added download

http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=3669

 

[RogerTheDodger]

(Please note all my feedback is from competitive 6v6 experience. If you have no interest balancing the map for competition, feel free to disregard my post. xxx)

First of all, beautiful map. Snow against a night sky is a beautiful theme and even though it's still in alpha this is a really great looking map.

Having gotten together a few competitive mixes on this map after being astounded by its beauty and praying it was competitively viable so I could have an excuse for looking at it more often, I've run into one massive problem.

Whoever wins the midfight almost invariably takes the round. I have summarised the reasons in the image linked to below.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1578751/koth_stark_a30000.jpg

I'll try to go into a bit more detail as to why it is so hard to push out from your spawn to middle after losing the midfight now.

1. Sniper is fairly useless in this situation due to how narrow the corridors are, making in very hard to get a pick off. Spy will also struggle around this area due to the amount of spam being pumped into any of the exits at any one time and how cramped and narrow most areas around the entrances are, making it likely he will bump into someone.

2. The defending team can very easily retreat to high ground. Since the demo can call any push coming from the left very early and how far away the medic will be from the other entrances in my picture above, the medic can very easily retreat the second the enemy makes a push out. Since their uber will likely be forced in this process, this gives the defending team a massive advantage as they can just rocket jump up away from the danger and sometimes get away with not popping their uber until the attacker's is half finished.

3. It is far too easy for the defenders to rotate and help each other out at the various chokes. The demo is almost invincible where I've put him on the picture, one soldier can very easily get over to give the scouts a hand if necessary and the medic can stay very far away from danger while still keeping all his teammates healthy.

While I guess it's arguable that these problems might sort themselves out as people familiarise themselves with the map, I'd still say you should consider at least taking a look at the problems I've outlined and see if you think they can be fixed.

Thanks for reading
xxx

 

[YM]

Updated to b1!

go get it.

 

[Bermuda Cake]

lookin' very nice... thought it was dead

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just a general question about the map: Why would anyone want to place those oval/rectangle structures in the middle of the place?

Its just so damn random!

 

[The Political Gamer]

Just a general question about the map: Why would anyone want to place those oval/rectangle structures in the middle of the place?

Its just so damn random!

Its a broken train bridge.

 

[Void]

Mistakes on both sides of the map, tend to be more noticeable on RED side:

Mistake on one side of the map:

Shouldn't that edge be brick too? Would look better, I think.

I've seen this before, somewhere...

 

[grazr]

Updated to b1!

go get it.

I feel like the dirt alpha should be more indicative of the paths players should take to help influence flow, at least on the "main" path up and across the bridge if not the lower as well.

The centre of the map is actually pretty tiny (which i've said before, mostly because there are no flanks or even positions to shoot down onto the point (besides the demo class's blind fire perk)) so my concern is still that gameplay might become stale and repetitive rather quickly; and that spy's become under balanced as entrentched positions (sentry nests) have high player densities with the classic engineer whacking away at their SG's all day scenario. Making zapping buildings incredibly difficult.

edit: also, whilst i did prefer the rural bridge to the hut as a central focus of the CP it still feels rather odd that there should be a small stone bridge positioned under a broken massive one (the remaining support columns) that also seemingly passed through the buildings positioned on top of the hills either side of the middle of the map.

You might consider removing them or changing them to something else just as aesthetic, maybe even changing the map name in the process, as the central area starts to take on considerably less likeness to the original it was converted from. I believe that's something not entirely out of the question (unless you as the author decide otherwise).

 

[Sel]

hit me up in the my desire to get fucked in the ass so we can 6v6 this again

 

[The Political Gamer]

So we ran this on 2f2f today and a few comments came up. The big one was this ram right here People just talked about how it was hard to really go up it with out getting blasted by a bazillion heavies. That brings me to the next point. With the ramp locked down there is only one way up, not all that fun. This brings me to the last point. A heard a few people say that you are given ample paths to get to the arena but once you get there your options are numbered.

As an experiment try cutting out the last point and just keeping spawns on 2nd/4th and use mid as the cap zone. Just a suggestion to see if it plays any better.

 

[absurdistof]

edit: also, whilst i did prefer the rural bridge to the hut as a central focus of the CP it still feels rather odd that there should be a small stone bridge positioned under a broken massive one (the remaining support columns) that also seemingly passed through the buildings positioned on top of the hills either side of the middle of the map.

You might consider removing them or changing them to something else just as aesthetic, maybe even changing the map name in the process, as the central area starts to take on considerably less likeness to the original it was converted from. I believe that's something not entirely out of the question (unless you as the author decide otherwise).

To be honest, I never noticed :/ I wouldn't change them or remove them, but I think if you added train tracks then the player could make the connection that one bridge is for trains, and the other for people.

 

[YM]

Tracks are already there, always have been.

@tpg you diagnose a problem, and then suggest the worst possible fix for it.. Also I'm not turning it into an arena map so I'd be stupid to cut out the paths from last (Have you played viaduct? do you know what kind of size it is?)

 

[McNuggetFiend]

Yea we really love this on the Lunchbox, my server, we have a blast with it. A great addition to some of our custom koth selections. It is beautiful and it plays really well with bots too when we did humans vs bots on it. I look forward to seeing how it progress, kudos to this one YM, really like it.

 

[waxpax]

Not really sure if you're still working on this map, but I played it a few seasons ago in TWL preseason and like it then so I wanted to pug it and was able to so tonight. I think most people really enjoyed the map, I hope you finish it sometime.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21561105/New Map PUGS/20110305-0003-cp_stark_b2.7z

I'll post the mumble recordings once they're uploaded.

Edit: mumble recording: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21561105/New Map PUGS/stark.7z

 

[Citizen Snips]

Bump of the ages.