CP polarplant b1c

[Sirc]

Thanks for checking out the map! It still needs a good art pass, but feel free to discuss what you think about gameplay, how it should look, etc. At the moment I'm working with the idea of an alien power generator surrounded by human surveillance and testing gadgets for the midpoint, with power cables running towards the research facilities at each team's last. I'm not experienced with modeling at all, so if you feel at all inspired let me know so we can work something out.

a1r1:

polarplant - First public version, functional, no art pass

Hello, this is my first map post (please be gentle and inform me of any forum practices I am not exercising). This version has no art pass since I am still working on the fundamental design of the map. Please ignore the poor lighting, I am aware certain walls are poorly lit... Specifically, I would like the most help with last. I currently feel as though the room is too small, despite having the same depth as cp_foundry's last. I would love discussion of any kind in regards to any area of the map, too!

Some other things I'd like to point out:
Most changes in heights are achieved with slopes. Slopes are just the easiest way for me to bridge the height difference -- Art passes will have some of these slopes changes to stairs. (Of course, stairs will be sloped with blockbullets in order to facilitate fair play)

The room with a "grate" / fence flooring was designed so that projectiles pass through. It's a design choice that I wanted to experiment with -- consider it a unique spin, but please inform me if you think this is bad map design.

I originally had sliding doors on most room transitions, but removed a few not only to give teams an option to push without giving an audio cue, but also to mitigate the power of sticky bomb trapping. I am curious whether you think there should be more doors, less doors, or if there are just enough doors.

Please let me know what you think, and thank you all very much for your time.

 

[n8five484]

You should put this on imp map list on the discord server, if you want to get gameplay feedback.

 

[Sirc]

Fixing stuff up for playtesting, thanks n8five484 for suggesting to visit the Discord.

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[Sirc]

Thanks to the TF2Maps discord server for playtesting! Following some of the feedback, the following changes have been made:

Adjusted light_env to match cp_coldfront, so now outside areas won't be super dark

Added some "ambient" linear static lights to improve visibility in covered areas

Added info_overlays below health and ammo packs to show where packs are

Removed lower glass fence in 2nd-last lobby to improve firing lines on both sides

Added small bridge-like geometry at mid to make the area seem less "open" -- Compared to vetted maps, the walkable space is comparable. Perhaps the sightlines are influencing opinions. See below for future considerations.

Removed the left door (from attacker's perspective) from the entrance into 2nd-last lobby and raised the height of the doorway

Fixed leaks from accidentally leaving placeholder doors outside of the map without containing them. The doors were there to easily re-implement them in the future if needed, though I neglected to surround them.

Changed windows texture in last. It was a placeholder texture that was meant to convey the idea of a one-way window. Some people didn't have this texture, though, so for now I've used a TF texture.

Added a round timer so matches are not solely determined by round victory.

Future Considerations
Based on feedback from the first playtest, here are a few personal opinions and things I'm looking out for with future playtesting:

Many people complained the map was too stalemate-y. I've heard this is common with 5CP maps. I reviewed the demo, and I would like to see additional gameplay from not only other people of the same skill level, but also people at higher levels of play.

Some people wanted the second point lowered some. I am holding off on major geometry changes until I see more gameplay. This is to make sure the feedback involving major geometry changes are agreed upon by a larger number of players.

Arrows pointing to where players should go: I agree. I will find places to add arrows so that players will not be confused after an art pass has occurred. For now, since walls are team-colored and the map is very straight, it should be simple to know where to go after playing the map once or twice.

Bottom area directly beneath 2nd will eventually have displacements that replace the blocky edges. (I'll be honest, I was lazy and didn't have a good procedure for symmetrical rotation when I made it...)

"There are too many options going to 2nd from mid": I personally disagree. Since most of the options can be spotted from on top of 2nd, the multitude of routes actually favors people moving to mid from 2nd. In others words, some routes to 2nd should only be taken as an uncommon approach mixup (speaking in terms of coordinated play).

"There are a lot of small, campy doorways to last": I sort of agree. I'm not satisfied with the last point, though keep in mind that last is supposed to be heavily defense-favored. I find myself simultaneously unsatisfied with how easily a solider can jump to last and unsatisfied with the sightlines from the doorways. Would love additional feedback on this (if it is a dilemma, and if so how it could be resolved).

"There are too many shutter doors": I disagree, both thematically and functionally. Thematically, the outside is a frozen, snowy place and the inside is a generator facility / factory so the doors make sense. Nevertheless, I removed the left door as a compromise. Functionally, It is possible to go from 2nd to last without touching a shutter door even before this change (there were even 1x3 ways, all paths required taking the rightmost entrypoint from 2nd). Now there are 2x3 ways.

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[Sirc]

Thank you to the second round of players testing r3, as well as b4nny for reviewing as well. With all of these considerations in mind, I have the following changes (note that all directional callouts are perceived as if you had been walking from middle to the location):

Geometry
-Shortened the size of middle some.
-Widened the middle platform to make a more circular standing area.
-Snow is now piled up around the midpoint, creating another way up via a "ramp"
-Put a wall up on the really small ramp at the left entrance to 2nd.
-Separated the room to the side of mid that had forward spawns and the two long yet thin ramps (aka far right path to 2nd), so now the forward spawn room is its own room.
-Pushed back the far right path closer to choke. The ramp leading to the old door at mid remains, though without a door.
-Removed the grate in the left path to 2nd. People were confused.
-Removed the small shutter door in the left path to 2nd, and widened the doorway connected the the courtyard at 2nd.
-Removed the underpass hallway connecting to 2nd entirely. There are now only 3 ways from mid to 2nd.
-Pushed up the far right path to 2nd a little bit. The pathway is much shorter overall since the room has been split.
-Re-did the shed and put in on the left wall instead of the right wall so it can block sniper sightlines. It also has a ramp leading down to the courtyard.
-Moved 2nd a little closer to mid to make the map smaller.
-Added a small wall on the left corner of 2nd to block sightlines from main choke.
-Reworked the right side of 2nd. There are now 2 ways into that right building; the old way which has no shutter, and a new shutter door on the left side. I made it a shutter door to give flankers pushing out of last the element of surprise.
-Piled up snow where the old underpass was and added planks so every class can get on the shipping crate in the courtyard.
-Removed the shipping crate just behind 2nd and instead made a small entrance into the "pit" of 2nd-last lobby. Read below for more.
-Re-angled the ramp in the "pit" so it flows better when pushing out of last.
-Removed the old room that used to be accessed from the far right area of 2nd and led into the lower entrance at last. This makes the map less complex so the defending team will have an easier time pushing out.
-The entrance into lower last from the pit now enters at a 90 degree angle instead of head on. This required a reworking of the tunnel leading up to it.
-Added some crates in 2nd-last lobby to spice up the flat terrain and hopefully break up some rocket jumping paths.
-Removed the leftmost corridor leading into last. It was far too long and narrow. Now there are 3 ways into last from 2nd.
-Defenders now have a third door to retreat into spawn, located on the left side. This allows less mobile classes who drop down to the point to get back without being forced to use the right door.

Other Stuff
-Replaced health packs to match all of these changes.
-The nipple at mid now looks slightly different and has a bright colored stripe to indicate team color. The top shuts and reopens so the stripe can change color when ownership is exchanged in a really cool animation.
-I am aware there is a small clip now thanks to the above change. Deal with it.
-May have adjusted some lighting? I honestly can't remember.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Sirc]

Geometry
-Pushed forward the flank route in 2nd-last lobby so that it ends further in the lobby. If used properly, this should help alleviate sentry spam inside the lobby. People weren't really using the flank that much, I'm not sure if it's because they found it to be unrewarding or if they were too focused on just pushing the main way.

-Added windows on the wall separating 2nd from the lobby. This will give players more information and therefore they should be able to plan their attacks better.

-Added a bit more room to walk inside the lobby. Someone said it was cramped, so a little bit more space should make it better.

-Replaced the shack above the entrance to the pit in lobby with scaffolding that does not support buildings. It's too unfair for the defending team to be forced to use the flank or shoot at a sentry at a 90 degree angle while being fired upon by players from the most contested area on the map.

-Added tires to allow all classes to get on top of the big shed outside the flank. The intended purpose is to give better height for the defending team to push into 2nd from the flank... However, this makes pushing into 2nd from mid even more difficult since that shed has massive highground advantage over that door.

-Added snow on the ramps of 2nd to make walking easier

-Added some blockbullets clipping on stairs.

-Raised skybox on mid. No more rocket jumps ruined by invisible ceilings.

Other Stuff
-Buffed some health and ammo packs
-Reduced attacking team's respawn time after capturing defending team's 2nd point (-2s -> -4s)

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[Sirc]

Geometry
-Added two additional ways for attackers to move into 2nd, one on the left and one on the right
-One path leads on top of the shed from an upper window, the other leads to a balcony overlooking the point
-The roof of the shed has new geometry to prevent the window from become an overpowered sniper sightline

-Removed the wall in front of last
-Shortened the small wall to the right of the ramp at last
-Lengthened the passage out of the right spawn and made sentries less powerful in that spot
-Reduced the respawn room size inside of last. This means players have to walk further into spawn to change classes.


Other Changes
-Redid lightning. Still temporary, just more consistent without a ton of extra spotlights for no reason
-Changed the ammo pack underneath mid to be medium instead of large

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[Sirc]

Apparently when the guys at TF2Maps tested r6, for some reason the server still used r5 (but the name was r6, I don't want to think about it). So for those guys, this version's gonna be quite different. I won't re-iterate the changes from r6.

Geometry
-Removed the lower left door connecting mid to second (from attacking perspective).
-That whole left room has been changed, and the "upper" exit has been moved down to be on more equal ground with the second point.
-Added some pipes on the "sidewalk" ramp on second so it's now possible to jump onto the balcony connected to aforementioned room.
-Apparently I didn't sync the barn between both teams, so now RED side's small shack is correct... And properly has a func_nobuild brush on the barn itself.
-Added a new route leading from last to hopefully help the defending team push out more effectively. From the defending side, the lobby is to the far right and offers some highground against the attacking team, and leads out behind the crates to help break stalemates inside the main lobby.
-Reworked last some by raising the last point, reworking the wall in front of last, removing a ramp, and adding a staircase.
-I fixed the fucking railing in the main lobby. Happy now? It wasn't easy finding models that resembled the geometry I had before.

Other Stuff
-During the last playtest, when the admin team scrambled, some players accidentally spawned in the forward spawn. From my observation and intuition the plugin that scrambles teams is to blame -- nevertheless I added some logic to when teams capture last to try and prevent this from happening again.
-Modified position, quantity, and quality of some health and ammo packs to provide a more similar distribution to established maps. Most notable is the reduction of ammo packs around mid so teams pushing from second will hopefully have a better time dealing with Engineers.

Current Thoughts
-People keep asking why the one-way window in last has a door texture. People are never happy with the texture I use. Please give more constructive criticism.
-People keep telling me you can see over the top of the map because of how my skyboxes are constructed. I know, it's still in alpha.
-People keep saying that the forward spawn doors close behind them and they can't open them again, and that they should have resupply lockers. These people need to review established maps.
-People are complaining the respawn timers are too long. I've done extensive comparisons between the best cp maps currently in the game and I have compared respawn timer modifications as well as forward spawn placements. I can assure you the respawn timer is no different than existing maps, and forward spawn placement is pretty good too. In fact, having the forwardmost spawn being at mid is better than most of the other maps. This is not to say anything I have done is perfect or balanced, but its effect on gameplay has been shown to be very minor at best.

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[Sirc]

b4nny has reviewed the map again, looking at r7. Along with playtesting and feedback from other sources, I've made significant changes to all areas of the map. So significant, in fact, I've incremented the alpha version to 2.

Geometry Changes
- Mid isn't as wide as it used to be. It's been moved in so every square inch is a bit more objective-oriented.
- Replaced some walls with blast shield looking things. I just thought it looked cool.
- Reworked the entrances from mid to 2nd:
- The room from left path now has a far left door and subroom to facilitate easier navigation to that side of the map. Prior to this point that section wasn't really utilized in midfights.
- The right path has had changes in the way you get to the upper path. The entrance is no longer on top of the concrete ramp and instead meets up right next to the lower path. There's a closed window looking into mid as well.
- Moved the forward spawns inside of mid further forward so there's not a bizarre room with no purpose.
- Reworked boundary walls some (see artpass changes below).
- Reworked health packs in mid with the intention of making rollout better
- Added a small shelf by main/choke so teams coming from 2nd have a place to avoid spam.


Honestly you should just look at everything changed on 2nd, way better than me trying to describe it...
- Redid the roof of the barn on 2nd so it better covers sightlines to point.
- Redid the small shed beside the barn on 2nd and made walking up easier with a ladder prop.
- The area around the shipping crate on 2nd has been redone so walking is easier without sacrificing accessibility to point.
- The ramp on the lower left side of 2nd now hugs the wall of the point.
- The left side of 2nd now connects all the way to the 2nd/last lobby, and instead of a ramp on that side there is now a plank.
- Changed the left door to 2nd/lobby so it faces at a 90 degree angle, and extended the leftmost 2nd/lobby room to compensate for this.
- Shrunk the right ramp shutter door into 2nd/lobby and removed the shutter -- instead this is a small balcony with a larger doorway leading into the flank lobby on the right.
- Removed the far right entrance into flank lobby.
- Redid the ramp work in the flank lobby to match changes.
- Moved health packs around in 2nd and all the lobbies.
- More minor stuff I really can't be bothered to detail.

- Removed the rightmost (from defender side) spawn shutter and reallocated the space to make a ramp connecting up to the other spawn shutter.
- Moved health packs around in last a bit.

Artpass Changes
I've textured a significant portion of mid, mid/2nd connectors, and 2nd. This isn't even remotely final -- I recognize I don't have the artistic mindset / skills needed to make a map look good. That being said, I do have broad ideas about how I want the map to look and feel. Alongside the fact that geometry is still being moved around quite a bit, I will only do simple artpass stuff so that whoever comes through and does a better job at detailing will have a basic visual understanding of what I want accomplished. So please don't laugh at my strange texturing choices

Notably, boundary walls are an important part of how the map is played -- having an invisible wall plays very differently for soldier compared to having a solid, jumpable wall (think of how highbombing works). To this end, I have removed the highwalls alongside a section of 2nd as an introduction to this aspect of map design. I've also fenced a few areas for jumping reasons as well as to make space for out-of-bounds aesthetics.

Other Changes
- Reoriented the spawn points in last to face towards the doors instead of at a wall.
- Restructured internal framework using visgroups to more easily mirror changes in the future.

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[Sirc]

Rebuilt the map on a new .bsp so I could extract the parts I liked from the map while being able to make major changes to other areas, as well as tweak a ton of little things.

The map is now primarily aligned to the 32 grid instead of the 16 grid to keep brushes more broad.

Most importantly, though, everything past the second point has been reworked from scratch. There's a new second lobby, and a new last point that hopefully will be more fun and balanced to play on. I'm a little worried about the amount of play space on last, as well as sightlines throughout the map, but we'll see. I really cannot tell if Sniper will be really good or subpar on this map.

Additionally, the old main choke between mid and second has been squeezed down a lot, to the point that I'm not sure it's worthy of being called "main" anymore.

I've also done some "detailing" (definitely my best work yet, but still not that good in the scheme of things) by including a greenhouse, a building with a curvy black roof, and the large building at mid.

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[Sirc]

Geometry Changes
- Made the map smaller overall by reducing the size of mid and one of the pathways from mid to 2nd
- Reduced sightlines on mid via a couple changes:
- Raised the point by a large amount so the whole area behaves more as a pyramid instead of a valley (can't wait to catch flak about this one)
- Rotated the forward spawn rooms and removed a ramp, which eliminates a popular sniper position while simultaneously makes it easier for players to navigate towards the fight
- Retextured some bricks to be a deeper shade, just so everything isn't so "samey"
- Inspiration takes place from Icelandic power plants, which are all very bland in nature and use next to no wood at all. It's an intentional limitation. Nevertheless, I'd like to emphasize that this is still an alpha, and the focus is not on detail or texturing, despite the recent detailing that has taken place. As I've said before, it's a very rough concept that is a way to portray my intentions for the person who will detail it later.
- Added a shipping crate on 2nd so there's another way to escape the lowground

Other Stuff
- Added info_overlay signs to help direct people. I'm already expecting people to say, "don't use the A/B/C signs for 5cp, it's inaccurate and confusing". To them, I say that I don't care, it's alpha and it's better than just having the vague signs that say nothing but "Capture Point ->". It's a linear 5cp map, c'mon now.
- Dimmed the light entities across the board. Lighting, while important, still is not a major concern since I'm still working out the layout of the map. It's a part of the design that takes a huge amount of time (as you should know), so obviously I'm not going to put a lot of effort into it until the map is ready for the effort.

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[Sirc]

It's 2am. I'm tired.
In my opinion, the map received a downgrade in both visuals and function. But this version is supposed to help me gauge what functional ideas work and what doesn't so I'll refine them in the next version. Chances are before long I'll create this map on a fresh .vmf again because I'm starting to feel like the brushwork is getting unnecessarily cluttered from all the changes it's gone through. Anyways...

Mid's shrunken down a bit to get rid of dead space.
The platforms on mid got an extension. Also helps with sightlines.
The right path from mid to 2nd has been overhauled. Not sure if it's better or worse, but I swear it's all in the name of progress.
Second has been minorly overhauled. The forward spawn there has been moved up from beneath the point to the black roof building.
There's a porch-like area from that right side of mid now.
Some doors have closed, while others have opened. There's now a "river" over on the left side (looking from 2nd to last) that connects the points.
Last has been redone again. No more flank room on the right side that leads into a building.
There's crates on second and last now. I guess last has become the warehouse. Makes sense 'cause the exterior looks like one and the interior looks like one. Not sure how I managed that without consciously piecing that together.
Some health and ammo packs have been redistributed.

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[Sirc]

Minor Tweaks after a discussion on the TEST.CO server:
Colored the spawns at last.
Tweaked the sightline from river to the spawn door.
Fixed an unsightly hole in a ceiling.
Adjusted health packs.

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[Sirc]

Healthpack asymmetry!

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[Sirc]

Last has been redone again in accordance with feedback from TestCo.
The entrances into last's lobby have been squished together some so rotating does not take as long.
Changed the small ammo pack to a medium ammo pack.
Fixed some places that lacked playerclips, and added func_nobuilds to roofs.
The black roofed perch now has less surface area and standing there leaves you vulnerable to splash damage at all spots.

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[Sirc]

Some geometry was sticking through a wall, and some other geometry was z-fighting.

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[Sirc]

Reworked geometry on 2nd to hopefully encourage defenders to hold closer to the middle instead of hugging the right side.
This means that the packs in the right room has been moved closer to the defending side (to discourage pushing solely through the fastest route), putting the highground closer to the left side and removing the highground on the right side.
Also, due to popular demand, last has received an inkling of thought in regards to lighting so it's not "fullbright". Might be too dark now.

Thanks as always to TEST.CO for the feedback and testing.

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[Sirc]

Healthpacks on second/mid have been reworked:
-There is now only one medium healthpack in lobby (that one has been shifted closer to the middle of lobby). The other one that was closer to river has been moved onto second.
-The medium ammo on battlements has been removed.
-The small pack by the forward spawn has been moved in front of the middle choke, and given a small ammo pack on the snow pile.
-The small health and medium ammo pack on the left side (dev texture building) has been moved closer to the attacking side and has been updraded to a medium health kit. It's more exposed but more usable by both sides.
-The medium pack in the right choke (previously dubbed 'grate' by some) has been pushed into mid so that mid gets more health.
Along with the above, this right choke has been readjusted.
-The grate has been cut in half so soldiers can't camp the ramp.
-Since this opens sightlines, the door has been redone and turned into a shutter door.
Back to the second point, the middle choke has had its exit raised, and the wall facing the exit has been pushed back. In addition, another short wall has been introduced to help make pushing through a little safer.
On the right (or "open") choke, an arch at the top has been introduced to limit high bombs.
On last, river has been opened up just a bit at the end so that bombing is easier.

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[Sirc]

Roamers were able to survive forever by jumping between medium packs on mid and second, and midfights were lasting a bit too long for my tastes, so I've reduced the amount of health on those points.
Also removed some weird geometry and fixed a missing texture.

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[Sirc]

Fixed an asymmetry. Also made a ramp on mid easier to approach from the side by raising snow.

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