pl_waste

[Apom]

Here's a couple of remarks after playing this map on gameday:

- You should have a "resting time" after a team pushes the cart. If bleu is pushing and stops pushing for some reason, then for ten (?) seconds, only blue can start pushing again. That is, the cart stays blue, even if it doesn't move anymore. Once this delay is over, the cart becomes neutral and any team can claim ownership by starting to push again.

- There is a wall around the middle cap, with a door that opens after setup, and some player clipping above (makes sense so you don't go there before setup is over). I would suggest than your turn the clipping off once setup is over.

- Maybe raise a little bit the water level in those sewers, so you can crouch to extinguish the flames (as in 2fort basement) ?

- Other than that, it looks good and plays well.

 

[GrimGriz]

I think either an optional second spawn (Half on top half on bottom) on the second floor, or some battlement signs on the stairs. It really becomes evident if one team knows the map and the other doesn't.

 

[Icarus]

- You should have a "resting time" after a team pushes the cart. If bleu is pushing and stops pushing for some reason, then for ten (?) seconds, only blue can start pushing again. That is, the cart stays blue, even if it doesn't move anymore. Once this delay is over, the cart becomes neutral and any team can claim ownership by starting to push again.

That's how the cart acted in the very early alphas. Playtesters thought it was a pretty stupid idea, so I removed it.

I think either an optional second spawn (Half on top half on bottom) on the second floor, or some battlement signs on the stairs. It really becomes evident if one team knows the map and the other doesn't.

I'm actually going to restructure the backside a bit. Having a more obvious staircase will be on my mind. Thanks.

 

[Zeewier]

The outdoor area of the map needs some extra work I think, because 90% of the time the cart was in the inside of the buildings.
Add some extra places to ambush the enemy in those areas. (I think this also gives the defending team a better chance to claim the cart)

 

[Apom]

That's how the cart acted in the very early alphas. Playtesters thought it was a pretty stupid idea, so I removed it.

No resting time is in the vein of 16v16 insta spawn. Personnally, I'd rather play Quake or UT if I just wanted to frag, but apparently some players don't think that way (admittedly, killing someone with a railgun is a bit more technical than spamming grenades and hoping for a crit).

TF2 is meant to have some strategy in it, and resting time is the difference between a brainless rush to the cart, and a planned assault. It gives you some time to build sentries (as attacking team), it allows reinforcing with slower classes, and it makes falling back a potentially sensible decision.

 

[MangyCarface]

Apom, it's one thing to postulate and write theory, but really, it was such a frustrating mechanic in the early playtests. Icarus is right to listen to direct gameplay feedback. Nothing like blasting everyone off the cart only to have to stand around as a scout or something. And this would horribly throw off game balance--promoting steamrolls even more.

 

[Apom]

He's definitely right to lsiten to direct gameplay feedback. I'm not sure I really understood the part about the scout (why would you stand around, regardless of the cart's team?), but you could make the resting time rewarding in any case. For instance, replace the plain "resting time" by some form of "recapture time": players have to reclaim the cart in CP-style, for a shorter time if they are numerous.

Regarding game balance, you could actually use this to help balancing, by having different times. For instance, the attacking team loses the cart after 2 seconds (still better than 0), but the defending team has a full 10 seconds.

 

[GrimGriz]

I think you boys should agree to disagree at this point, though I'd like to see some fix to the back and forth at the point (the one that broke the HUD for example). A 1-sec cooldown would probably help and go virtually unnoticed.

 

[NoHeroes]

Unfortunately, latest version had to come down as well - still crashing the server on stalemate (32 player server).

 

[Rexy]

We've been playing this on our 24(32) slot server and I'll let you know if we come across the same issues. We're running B1 and haven't had any stalemating, but really long rounds, which is expected. I'll let you know if it comes up.

Server's IP: 66.150.164.129:27015

 

[Icarus]

I think you boys should agree to disagree at this point, though I'd like to see some fix to the back and forth at the point (the one that broke the HUD for example). A 1-sec cooldown would probably help and go virtually unnoticed.

I'm actually going for a more simpler solution. I'm going to modify how I set up the gametype entities a bit.

Unfortunately, latest version had to come down as well - still crashing the server on stalemate (32 player server).

Conflabbit!

Can someone confirm this issue for me? I'd like to know if it is affecting other servers.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

We've been running b1 in 2f2f's regular rotation without issue. Also, FWIW, I strongly prefer no cooldown time.

 

[Randdalf]

One tiny thing I would suggest for this would be to copy and the normal point texture such that it replaces the home symbol, which removes the tiny home symbol on BLU's first point. Pakrat it in

 

[Icarus]

So far I've had no success trying to pack files in to override the HUD images.

I've tried making the cart Grey, but it comes up blue no matter what.

 

[Zeewier]

there must be a reason valve added those to the material folder :/

 

[Randdalf]

So far I've had no success trying to pack files in to override the HUD images.

I've tried making the cart Grey, but it comes up blue no matter what.

Are they in exactly the same location, and of the same name?

 

[Icarus]

Yes and yes.

It only works when sv_pure is set to 0, though

there must be a reason valve added those to the material folder :/

I've been unable to find a way to get the RED cart to display.

 

[Icarus]

Valve update: "Fixed announcer saying "the cart is nearing the checkpoint" after the round has already been won"

Awesome, this really benefits the map.

 

[MungoKing]

Played the map today, lots of fun! I only have one gripe, and that is that while I was playing neither team actually won once. Now granted I did only play the map 3 times, but they were quite long rounds that always ended up at a stalemate either right before or right after the second point. Now this may have been due to the lack of medics >.> But even with taking out the sentries with an uber neither team could get to the last point. Also it was a 32 man server (No Heroes) which may have lead to a slight imbalance, but either way it was tons of fun, seems very balanced, just might want a little more detail in certain places, still a little plain (outside.. around the middle cap) but gameplay wise it was pretty much fantastic!

Can someone confirm this issue for me? I'd like to know if it is affecting other servers.

Went into sudden death 3 times, the server didn't crash on any of them, so I guess either it's fixed or it was just the one server... Hope that helps.

 

[Icarus]

Played the map today, lots of fun! I only have one gripe, and that is that while I was playing neither team actually won once. Now granted I did only play the map 3 times, but they were quite long rounds that always ended up at a stalemate either right before or right after the second point. Now this may have been due to the lack of medics >.> But even with taking out the sentries with an uber neither team could get to the last point. Also it was a 32 man server (No Heroes) which may have lead to a slight imbalance, but either way it was tons of fun, seems very balanced, just might want a little more detail in certain places, still a little plain (outside.. around the middle cap) but gameplay wise it was pretty much fantastic!



Went into sudden death 3 times, the server didn't crash on any of them, so I guess either it's fixed or it was just the one server... Hope that helps.

Thanks. Beta 2 will focus on making the middle point more significant and helping the attackers a bit more.
I've also reduced the round time a bit to stop these insane rounds if they do happen again.