pl_hoodoo [Final release]

[crazychicken]

I find the colour scheme very dreaery and boring, everything is a shaded red/brown colour. needs some more light textures so its more attractive environment to be in. The final cp points are too close to red spawn too I think moving them a bit will improve gameplay a lot and not make rounds stalemates

 

[Ida]

Chicken: Remember, though, that the RED team actually have to walk a bit inside their spawns, and on the first round, they have to go all the way around it. It's not very unlike on Gold Rush, so I think it should work very well.

 

[grazr]

It's hard not to fall into the "brown trap"; just look at the first stage of dustbowl.

 

[Chilly]

Actually, many people (including myself) like the desert map theme. I think youme nailed it on the head with this map. If he had wanted to do a different theme he would have chosen to do so a long time ago. Lots of people will complain about the Dustbowl/Badlands texturing but the fact remains that this is a beautiful map that plays quite well. I think it's one of the frontrunners for a future Valve community map release.

I also think that the BreadHeadFred is correct... Gold Rush places the spawns directly behind the points as well, and it works fine as long as the server isn't set for instant respawn. In fact, I think the bigger issue is the bottleneck halfway through stage 2, where everything passes through that single room.

I'd love to see a heatmap of hoodoo since I'm guessing most of the kills end up in that room and the attached corridors. The lower side hall is a bit useless right now since it's right next to the spammy hall exit. One possible idea if this area proves to be unbalanced would be to have the exit come out further to the left (from the defender's perspective), closer to the ramp/balcony on the side. Shielding it a bit would also help a lot. Right now it's impossible to go out there without an uber, and the hall isn't quite long/wide enough to build up a proper forward base.

 

[oxy]

Amazing, adding to our server as soon as I get the chance.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

We've tested this on 2f2f extensively with 15v15. There was only one instance in which BLU made it to the 3rd stage, so I can't comment on that stage yet.

In Stage 1, it's very easy for RED to control the gated passageway to the point where it's useless for BLU. The presence of the medium health and ammo kits at the top allows a single RED demo to completely control that area. The balcony itself is completely exposed to the full breadth of the second CP area and is vulnerable to snipers, stickies being randomly lobbed up from below, etc. At the very least, I'd recommend moving the health/ammo kits to inside the tunnel or behind the gate, where only BLU can access it easily. Secondly, I'd recommend more cover for RED. A sniper in the alcove on the opposite side can contribute to making it completely useless for BLU. One idea is shown here:

The passageway on the opposite side is a bit too narrow and is prone to being camped easily by RED. I'd suggest expanding it:

Stage 2's second capture area is in dire need of attention. Because this area...

...is typically a zone of death for BLU, RED is too easily able to flank BLU by means of the stairs. The height advantage RED has in the large indoor area those stairs lead to (with the catwalk) is difficult for BLU to counter because of the lack of visibility on BLU's side. I'm not sure what the best remedy is for that area.

The upper tunnel is almost useless for BLU. The length of the approach to the exit is too long and too vulnerable to snipers. You're forced to walk a good 10-15' towards snipers with no cover. IMO, the tunnel approach should ideally allow BLU to counter sentries and defenders on the platform overlooking the "death zone" highlighted earlier. However, the placement of the rock to BLU's right negates that purpose. I'd recommend looking into realigning the upper tunnel exit so it is not parallel to the direction RED travels. Here's one idea:

 

[Chilly]

...is typically a zone of death for BLU, RED is too easily able to flank BLU by means of the stairs. The height advantage RED has in the large indoor area those stairs lead to (with the catwalk) is difficult for BLU to counter because of the lack of visibility on BLU's side. I'm not sure what the best remedy is for that area.

I agree 100% with this. Here's what I would suggest... first, remove the stairs leading up from the BLU side so it's just a balcony (extend it the whole length of the room). Second, remove any health up in that hall but leave some metal on it. This would prevent BLU from flanking RED using that upper hall except for demomen and soldiers that take damage to get up there. Red could use this for a decent staging area.

The upper tunnel is almost useless for BLU. The length of the approach to the exit is too long and too vulnerable to snipers. You're forced to walk a good 10-15' towards snipers with no cover. IMO, the tunnel approach should ideally allow BLU to counter sentries and defenders on the platform overlooking the "death zone" highlighted earlier. However, the placement of the rock to BLU's right negates that purpose. I'd recommend looking into realigning the upper tunnel exit so it is not parallel to the direction RED travels.

I agree mostly with this as well. I agree that it's too open for snipers the same as the exit below is too exposed to demomen. I don't think an indoor staging area up there is necessary, though. Just turn part of that rock wall into an extension of the wood building where both tunnels come out. I think the lower should still be a 1-way door and the upper should still be open, which would again allow flanking if the defenders rocketjump in. It would definitely make things easier on the attackers, but the defenders would gain some decent sentry locations on the ground floor below the building so it would probably balance out.[/QUOTE]

 

[MrAlBobo]

played this today and wow...a pl map i actually like, tis impressive

but anyways, there needs to be a few more health packs at the defense teams disposal, namely around the area of floormasters 3rd pic, a heavy without a medic is doomed in that area...

 

[ryodoan]

I was playing this on the Teamplay server the other day, Red had 1 win, blue had 17 when the map changed...

 

[YM]

stacked teams. since the teams swap every 6 points max the regulars probably all agreed to play on one team in vent, there seems to be a lot of that going on in our teamplay server.

No way a score like that is down to map imbalances since the same team sucessfully defended and attacked each time

 

[drp]

lol @ youme tagging his name

 

[YM]

If you notice at the bottom of the main page......

 

[Randdalf]

The server I play (and requested the upload of) this map to is divided on the map. Half of them really like it, half of them really hate it and there's never really been enough players (except for a few times) to play it properly. The main conclusions I would make about it a the moment:
- There are some areas in the map where RED can just spam their way to victory, namely capture points 4 & 6.
- It's far too hard for BLU to capture the last point, and I've only seen it done once
- Very rarely do BLU reach stage 3, unless you're on a superior team.
- Otherwise, it's very fun

 

[nossie]

i played the first stage for like 10 mins the other day but i also watched my bro play it(whole thing)
i thought that the 1st stage (i joined when it was up to the 2nd point ) was too hard to defend. but then again the team wasnt the best.

when my bro played he kept saying he didnt like it (all stages) because "it was too big". i think its just coz he doesnt no the map but o well. i really liked the layout of stage 3. except that he got stuck in the 1 way door to the right as u leave the red spawn. (might be fixed already?...) otherwise its looking really good

nossie

PS it was on a aussie server :O:O:O

 

[Ida]

Too big? Really? Isn't Hoodoo about the same size as Gold Rush? Maybe even a bit smaller?

That ticking sound from the bomb is interesting, Youme, since I use the same cart with the clock. I understand if you don't feel like sharing the exact same sound, but would you mind telling me if there's a place on the Internet where I can find sounds like that (preferably for free )?

 

[00000000000000000000000]

i played the first stage for like 10 mins the other day but i also watched my bro play it(whole thing)
i thought that the 1st stage (i joined when it was up to the 2nd point ) was too hard to defend. but then again the team wasnt the best.

when my bro played he kept saying he didnt like it (all stages) because "it was too big". i think its just coz he doesnt no the map but o well. i really liked the layout of stage 3. except that he got stuck in the 1 way door to the right as u leave the red spawn. (might be fixed already?...) otherwise its looking really good

nossie

PS it was on a aussie server :O:O:O

An aussie server??? Thats it, I'm gonna try and find it right now :drool1:

 

[YM]

I understand if you don't feel like sharing the exact same sound, but would you mind telling me if there's a place on the Internet where I can find sounds like that (preferably for free )?

I did a google search for alarm clock sounds (there are thousands of free sounds sites)
found a few good ones, loaded them up in a free version of cubase I had and picked one to loop.

 

[YM]

OK, I know most of you have played it now, I'd really appreciate some comments/suggestions on how I can improve the layout. Floor_master has set a great example, now follow it

 

[ColdFire]

I think it's in the first stage, it may be really hard to leave blu spawn if well organized reds put sentries and heavy/dispenser not far from blu spawn exit.

It happened only once though.
I can make a deathmap for hoodoo if you want, I have around 3000 kills on your map. If you're interested, I can do it by tomorrow (for victim and killers positions)
If you want some stats: http://www.coldfire.info/psycho/map.php?id=59
On my server, red won 67% of the rounds.

 

[YM]

Thats interesting, on canard plus' psychostats they've played to 3000 kills as well and its blu that win 61.4% of rounds for them.

since there are three rounds, and in a perfect world each team has a .5 chance of winning each red should win 77.5% of rounds whilst blu only win 12.5% (round not stages)
However, I have a feeling people would like it to be more 50:50 of getting to and winning the final round. which means blu have to have a slightly easier job for the first two stages so that people 'think' its balanced.