Payload Contest Voting Thread

Discussion in 'Contest #5: Payload map' started by Armadillo of Doom, Jan 21, 2009.

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  1. Apom

    Apom L6: Sharp Member

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    I think that GrimGriz is entirely right. While asking voters to review each map makes sense in a contest where voters have to pick "the best", the system that was chosen here has the advantage of allowing people to vote on specific maps without having played them all. So why not take advantage of it and allow people who couldn't find the time to play all of the maps to still vote for the ones they played on?
     
  2. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    Voting doesn't work correctly if you have to force people to vote. Sometimes they just do not have enough experience to make an informed decision.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  3. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    The advantage of the system mangy has devised means it doesn't matter if one map gets twice as many votes as another, because each map's score is worked out based on the sum of the votes that it got divided by the number - so two vote 8s are the same as fifteen vote 10 and fifteen vote 6s.
    Which means people don't have to vote on all of them - but it is thoroughly encouraged!
     
  4. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    a large reason for having people vote on every map is so the votes are just more accurate, how fair would it really be if a decent map in the contest was barely played by anyone, and the people that did play it decided they didn't like it. So it would get 2 votes both saying it got a score of 4. Then another map everyone played gets 20 votes, some low, some high, and it averages out to a 6, that really does not seem fair to the other map. Not to mention that if a person has to vote for every map their own skew balances out, like...if one person is stingy with their voting, they will be stingy with every vote and it will balance out.
    Im sure alot of thought went into this method of voting...there may have been a better way, but this works.
     
  5. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

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    If we have people vote for only the maps they've played on, we'd pretty much get no votes for tranquility or vipersden or reservoir, even (though I've seen a few servers running it recently). Meanwhile, we'd have new accounts and accounts from other gaming communities giving perfect tens to their favorite pl_alpine map for sure. If you ask for opinions of all maps, you can prevent vote spam from new accounts just voting for their favorite map and nothing else. Plus, it gives some recognition to the mappers who made the maps. Remember, the contest isn't Frontier/Cashworks/Halfacre/Stovepipe/Zig.

    I'll also get my vote up when I finally play vipersden with a full server.
     
  6. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    I believe the reverse is more likely to occur. People who would want their votes counted and barely played the map, whether it be half a round, low pop, or just stared at the screenshots for a while, would be forced to make a rating that does the map no justice.

    Why should people who haven't played the map be forced to rate it? It just doesn't make sense and it doesn't help the mapper.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  7. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    How fair is it that the 3-4 maps I got to play often enough to make an informed vote don't get points for my vote?

    Great job mappers, sorry I didn't get a chance to give feedback to all of you, and sorry to the mappers I voted high scores to for those scores not counting.
     
  8. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    The whole voting system is flawed.
    You need to play the map with people who have played it before.
    All those people need to know the layout perfectly.
    You need to play at LEAST 8 rounds on it to really know how the map plays.
    For A/D maps or payload maps; the amount of players can unbalance the map drastically, so you need to play with the amount of players the map is designed for.
    For example; my map pl_repository is quite balanced with 32 people who know the map layout. But if you change that to 22 players where only 4 people know the layout; it's very unbalanced.
     
  9. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Guys, this is precisely why there is a popular vote AND a judge vote.
    Leave it to the judges to be 100% fair in judging your map over many many rounds with players who know the layouts. I'll be running judge test sessions soon (i.e. this week)
    The popular vote is so that everyone can put in their 2 cents. It is not necessarily fair to let just anyone vote, but that's why there's 2 components to the final scores.
     
  10. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    I think the judges should stand for about 80% if not even more of the votes really.
     
  11. Apom

    Apom L6: Sharp Member

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    Uh, there would be no purpose to popular votes then.

    Regarding player numbers, maps should by default target 22-24 players. I'm not going to give a good grade to a map that only plays well with 32 (or 16) players, because that works against standard TF2 gameplay.
     
  12. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    Maps scale better down from 32 players, than they scale up from 22 players though
     
  13. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 9
    Zig Can't Vote
    Repository 8
    Stovepipe 8
    Halfacre 8
    Reservoir 7
    Vipers den 6
    Tranquility 6
    Frontier 9


    Cashworks:

    Visually, the conception of the map has been there nearly the entire time. Consistency is a major thing to consider and do well when mapping. If a mapper fails to be consistent, the result is a map that feels non-cohesive and not only will the visuals suffer, but the gameplay as well. It is important to realize how much design and gameplay are intertwined. Cashworks has this down pat.

    To further this, the design takes into account balance; Cashworks feels fair and the respawn times and placements are just right for the map's size. I won't say anything about those areas people love to camp: snipers, sentry guns--because those exist in every map. However, I do feel if a mapper leaves these areas for people to exploit, an alternative route should be given to offset the exploits. Again, Cashworks provides plenty of this.

    Style:

    Eerieone specifically picked a palette to use in Cashworks, and it is quite evident, yet subtle. For those who take the time to pay attention to things like the chosen color palette can utilize the tool and greatly control the stylistic choices of the map, and in this case, with how the color palette changes the entire mood and feel of the map. Eerieone stuck with the traditional pastel/low saturated colors as is common in TF2. Here are my perceived palette choices from Cashworks:

    Color:

    [​IMG]
    There's a few green swatches here, and while green tends to be a warm color, the chosen swatches fall on the cooler side.

    [​IMG]
    The combination of the chosen palettes work to create an environment that is more than just 'alpine'.

    Negative Things:

    While the map is so awesomely detailed, sometimes those things aren't always for the best. People with lower-end graphics cards will have difficulties playing this map with more than 8 players. There are a few areas on the map (one of them being right at Blu spawn 1 ) where the frame rate drops so low it's unbearable.

    Detail is great--but says a lot for being used in moderation. The subtle choices in color palette would really help out the detail--if there was a balance between the two. If a mapper can manage to balance design/detail, then a map is truly successful. Eerieone has come just SO close. But nothing is ever perfect. 9/10.


    Zig:
    I can't say anything about my own map. But for those who are interested, here are specific color palette choices for Zig:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Repository:

    Like Cashworks, this map is visually appealing. And to further that, the scaling of players vs environment feels just about right. But what bothers me is the failure of the mapper to create an environment that causes me to really want more. Specifically, there's nothing visually stimulating that I remember after playing the map. Even now, I have to replay the map to remember what your map looked like. Because there was nothing visually unique, I have to stop and think to myself, "Repository? Which one was that?" And I don't think that because the map was bad, just not memorable.

    Having said that, there are some areas that are innovations that I particularly thought were appealing, one being the horizontally placed girders in the 1st blu spawn. It's that sort of innovation that makes the map memorable.

    You can create a map that is just so well made in terms of detail--but it's the specific choice of detail that we all remember. Cashworks has got that 'green' EVERYWHERE, contrasted with the pink/light red for the 2nd part of the map--and that gigantic vault! No one forgets that!

    So as in terms of design, there's nothing that makes this map bad--there's just nothing to really sink my teeth into/around/about. Even the name: Repository--doesn't really strike me as memorable. I found it to be awesomely balanced, ran fairly well in terms of FPS, and potentially had no problems. I'd play it again and again, but I certainly wouldn't remember it the first time.

    It also doesn't help that the dustbowl style is used here. The source engine really provides such a wide variety of choices for lighting and style--dustbowl is a good one, but it just feels overused. And that's more of a personal preference thing, seeing as how it bores me.

    Style:

    It's dustbowl, more or less. And there's nothing wrong with that. But stylistically, it's bland. The entire set of elements is there for you to make a dustbowl style, and it may be easier, but the final outcome is just less dynamic and more static.

    There's just some hints of innovation that come through in this map, like the blu spawn:
    [​IMG]

    How much more could something like this be pushed? I see SO much potential here, in terms of consistently detailing the map in this manner and in other, similar ways.

    Color:

    It's dustbowl-ish, so the color palette is going to be similar to Halfacre and Stovepipe. But here it is:

    [​IMG]
    As you can see, there's little variation from just a few hues, even in the warm colors.
    [​IMG]
    And for cool colors, I could barely find any! It was a stretch even to find the few that I did, and even that seems unfair, because those colors weren't used enough to be considered consistent. There were plenty of neutral colors, but even those leaned more towards being warmer.

    Negative Things:

    Mostly what I have to say about this has already been said. There's nothing wrong with this map. It's a good map, but there's just nothing special about this map. Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for it in a map vote, should it come up, but just know that there's little to distinguish this map from others. Still, an EXCELLENT effort, and a great accomplishment as well as being a good entry. 8/10

    NOTE: I HAVE TO DO THE REST OF THIS IN A SEPERATE POST BECAUSE I HAVE HIT THE MAX 10000 CHARACTER LIMIT, IF A MODERATOR CAN HELP ME OUT THAT WOULD BE NICE...
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  14. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    wow, thx rexy, i have to admit i didn´t put that much thought into the color palette, but always had the thing in mind that blu and red have are in different color-areas
    looking forward to the rest of the color-palettes, quite an insightfull analysys
     
  15. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Rexy, that's a really neat analysis, very comprehensive and awesome. And please don't worry about how you styled your map too much- the judges will take a very fair look at your individual style, I promise.
     
  16. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    Great feedback Big Rexy :)
    I'll think more about warm and cool colors for my next map
     
  17. Ida

    aa Ida deer

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    Here are my grades. Yeah, I gave two 10s, but...well, I guess you could say I'm very forgiving. I don't let small issues ruin my appreciation of a map - if I love it, I love it. :)

    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 10
    Zig 7
    Repository 7
    Stovepipe 10
    Halfacre 9
    Reservoir 6
    Vipers den N/A
    Tranquility N/A
    Frontier 9


    Cashworks looks incredible and plays incredible. It has the best use of alpine theme ever, and it plays as good as any Valve map.

    Zig's style is positively surrealistic, but it doesn't win many points with me. Sorry. It's a very solid map that's fun to play, though, so I can't rate it badly either.

    Repository looks very good and plays well for the most part. Some odd design choices and a nearly impossible to attack last point, but I still like it very much.

    Stovepipe Wells is one of my favourite maps. Fantastic gameflow, and the detailing is very very good. The only minor annoyance would be some bad clipping on the dirtground.

    Halfacre is another great map, and the detailing is the best I have seen in a custom map. The map has many long stretches without a lot of interesting paths for the cart, though, and it sometimes feels somewhat bland, which kind of bothers me.

    Reservoir shows promise, but it's not really fit for competing. It's very open and I found myself a bit confused with the different paths.

    I have never played Vipers Den or Tranquility. Sorry, but I've just not been able to catch them while they have been on any server, so I can't rate them.

    Frontier's cart - and other details - are great, but perhaps not as good as other maps show off. Still, the gameflow is very good, and it's hard to find something bad about it. Unique and very fun.
     
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  18. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    *Continued because I hit the max character limit (10000).

    Stovepipe:

    Scaling, scaling, scaling...that's what I love about this map. It just feels right! And the design is adequate in terms of providing fun gameplay. This map is just fun! Those areas right around blu spawn 1 work so well in terms of gameplay--and then again at the end the setup is just right for a proper TF2 battle. But the middle areas of the map seem to lack the same quality as the beginning and the end.

    [​IMG]

    This above area is what comes closest to matching the level of gameplay as the first and last areas of the map. It could be equated in saying that that the first and last areas are THE focuses of the map, and the middle is just a detour, and means to an end--the long car ride to grandma's house. Everyone remembers packing up to leave, and what happens when you finally arrive--but unless something happens during the journey, no one remembers. And that's the impression that I get from Stovepipe Wells.

    But that aside, this map just feels consistent and well conceived. However, I have noticed in particular something very odd about the use of the color palette--nothing wrong, just backwards from what I would expect from a map that fits the dustbowl style religiously, and I'll point that out in the color section.

    Style:

    Here again I feel this map lacks in the same way that Repository does--it's just so static. There are very few levels of dynamism in stylistic choices that would make this map more memorable. However, this map remedies this partly in terrain geometry because it's used so much, over 70 percent of the map is fought in displacement geometry--and this is another reason I state that it's not as well remembered. The amount of the SAME displacement geometry is similar to when you walk into a coffee shop--the coffee smells WONDERFUL for the first 5 minutes...and then you can't smell it anymore. Changing up the scenery, maybe innovating on the dustbowl style a little and adding something extra new to the middle of the map would alleviate that monotony it suffers from.

    But I can't complain too much about style--since most people don't think twice about this map being dustbowl style--thus no one questions it unless it's thought about critically. And the gameplay sure helps this map out tremendously, and it becomes easier to look over and forget these stylistic flubs.

    Color:

    [​IMG]
    Pretty standard for dustbowl style.
    [​IMG]
    Again, lack of range of cool colors here is evident, but that tends to be a dustbowl thing.

    Here though, is where I'm pointing out that interesting thing about your use of color, and why I think it's backward:

    Most maps utilize the red/blu thing by use of architectural style, for red it's brick and wood, for blu it's concrete and metal. But it's more than that, it's the specific analogous color palettes that give the right amount of contrast between the two sides. In Cashworks, Eerieone picked a new color palette for each side, but was more subtle. Zig is much less subtle in the contrast; it uses blatantly saturated color, but the significance is there. It's the difference between warm and cool colors.

    Your map is backwards!

    Here's the beginning of the map, very warm colors:
    [​IMG]

    But here towards the end, your color palette becomes cooler, a complete switch-up of what we're used to. Do I have a problem with it? Absolutely not! I'm astounded, whether it was intentional or not:
    [​IMG]

    Negative Things:

    The like repository, there’s very little to complain about here. The map plays well with no problems, and everyone seems to enjoy themselves when playing and that’s important. I could complain a little about the lighting in the last section of the map, since it does seem a little dark, and most people seem to be in consensus about that. It’s great entry, a fun map to play, and a great mark to add to your belt of maps (once you finish it).

    Halfacre:

    If I had to say something about Halfacre, and about Youme’s maps is that no matter what stage of the game, they feel like solid works. They feel like they couldn’t be broken, that they have a degree of professionalism to them.

    But this contest isn’t about the mapper, it’s just about his entry. Halfacre has got the scenic elements to give it a good amount of originality, while pushing the limits of the dustbowl style. The spawn placements seem quite adequate, and there are plenty of them, maybe more so than any map I’ve ever played on. I won’t count the exact # of forward/backward spawn rooms, but Youme knows what I’m talking about.

    I’d say the best part of the map is the beginning. It seems to me to be the most remarkable, the most unique—that’s partly due to Youme’s skill in creating believable and quality displacement surfaces. It’s no surprise he’s using them to his strength in this section. But I feel that afterwards, the further into the map we play toward the final point, the displacements cease being elements of gameplay, and more decorative—no penalty there, just an observation. The rest of the map tends to be less dynamic. Alternate routes are predictable, the map ends in a way we expect.

    Style:

    Had Goldrush, Dustbowl and Badwater never been made, Halfacre would have been triumphed as an immense success. But that’s just the point I’m making here—and it’s because there’s nothing else to say bad about this map—that this map feels just like a master study of Valve’s maps. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s just nothing new about it. The level of innovation is quite low, and again, there’s no fault there, but I believe that making something on the cutting edge should be exactly that: Innovative! There’s a difference between making a map that pleases, bends over backwards to satisfy—and a map that leaves you hungry for more, hungry for something fresh and exciting!

    Color:

    [​IMG]
    No surprise, looks like Dustbowl!

    [​IMG]
    Again, the lack of range of cool colors is evident.

    Negative Things:

    There's not much to say that can really hurt this map. It's a solid product, the intent to create such a map was surely there in the beginning. From the WIP thread, I can tell that from start to finish there's not been changes made that majorly effect the way the map is played--part of this may be due to good initial planning...or stubbornness not to acknowledge the serious issues that could have made this map better. I still feel the last point is way too difficult to capture for blu, no matter how many countless times I've played this map on our community's server, gameday, and various other 'stranger' servers I've been to in attempts to find good playtests. But what's done is done, and you can't teach an old dog new tricks...A wonderful entry, fun to play, even if it does get a little old at times. Another map notch to add to the wall.
     
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  19. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    Reservoir:
    I have to applaud the use of a new setting for a map. And what better theme to fit TF2 than water treatment? I think that's a whole new area worth exploring, and I'll say why color could make this map incredibly powerful with the right combination of design/detail.

    What is really interesting to me in this map is that Reservoir is trying to step over the bounds of TF2 convention--something I think everyone should do--push push push, but not break. The use of specific textures in this map, particular lighting choices, and new elements make this map interesting, and full of potential.

    For starters, the cart is different. It's a blu dispenser and a ton of blue sticky pipe-bombs. That's interesting, and innovative, but I fail to see how or why it fits with the consistent manner of the map. Since the theme is water treatment, why not have the cart full of nasty chemicals (and I'll specify color in a moment)? The explosion at the end is new and a change up from the classic pit full of barrels, it's nice to see something like the water tower blowing up and falling over. Which is why the bombcart could be tied to that: blu is attempting to poison red's water supply. I'm thinking that's what the mapper had intended, I'd just like to see it further developed, more flushed out in concept. And these things are hard to do when your technical knowledge is very limited. I know I'd LOVE to put custom models into my map, however, I'm just now learning to use the software.

    Style:

    The style is there! It's so there! It's just not pushed enough, not fully realized. I'll point out exactly what I mean, and how pushing the boundaries of style in this map could REALLY make the map pop. Here's what I feel the style of Reservoir is: neutral concrete, dry yellow grass, and yellow paint. I'll point out some areas:

    [​IMG]
    Look at this warm lighting! It could be so much more! Look at the yellow!

    [​IMG]
    And the water reflections, yellow in color! That's significant! You gotta bring that out!

    [​IMG]
    If this isn't a direct clue I don't know what is...bring this stuff out more!

    [​IMG]
    More examples showing that you're close, but just not quite there.

    There's so much that could be done to tie this map together in terms of concept. Just look at all visual clues you've got going right now. Red vs Blu @ Yellow. The three primary colors. You can't go wrong!

    Color:

    As if I hadn't said enough about color in this map, here's the color palettes:

    [​IMG]
    Look at those earthy colors! There's a lot of untapped potential here.

    [​IMG]
    A little lacking in the balance between lighting here, try to change some light environment things.

    Negative Things:

    The map feels just a tad bit too big in terms of player vs. environment. And sometimes being experimental can have negative effects as well. But you've created an environment that is memorable, and that's always worth commending.

    Everyone is a novice at some point in time. That's the point of trying. But it's a needed step to becoming better. You make maps and do your damn best and try again. You learn along the way. This map is exactly that, a bold way to enter into the next development stage in mapping. Everyone learns more from each project.

    To counter that, no one is ever going to make the 'best map ever' because it simply cannot be done. Voting 10 out of 10 is ridiculous; no matter how good a map is, there is always room for improvement.

    This map gets a 7 out of 10 because the potential is there, but the polish isn't. Keep mapping, it's worth it.

    Vipers' Den:

    Sometimes, the best way to make a map is to start with a symmetrical base. Viper's Den was based on that principle, which can make for interesting gameplay. I'm also thinking shortcuts work well on the basic layout of the map. This normally works well for CP type maps like well, and granary (and more recently, pl_waste--talk about symmetry!).

    From Termaximus's dev blog:
    [​IMG]

    The layout like this can give potential gameplay bonuses, such as shortcuts, reduced confusion of the map layout, and balance that's already set in stone. It's clear that Termaximus had thought of various good elements to design and gameplay, such as the sniper area in the middle of the map.

    The problem with this is that as soon as you start to change the basic symmetry, the map balance, design flaws and confusion come back.

    Another thing that can really throw a stick in the mud is scaling the players to fit the environment. Viper's Den is just too big in scale! Players have to travel further each time they respawn, potentially have more weaknesses to enemy snipers, and the falling distance is greater as well. If all the basic layout brushes of the map were taken and reduced by 50 percent--I think the scale would be right on the money.

    There are also some things about player balance that need to be addressed, but I don't think it's worth getting specific about until the scale is dealt with. That's number one.

    Style:

    It's western, dustbowl! What more should be said? It's a popular way to go about making maps. I think the innovation lies in the symmetrical layout for a PL map. I think it can be done.

    Color:

    [​IMG]
    Typical For the theme.

    [​IMG]
    More warm colors than cool colors, but that's a lighting/skybox texture choice as well.

    Negative Things:

    The major thing that hurts this map is the scale. The scale has got to be fixed before anything else can get better. But you had balls and entered the contest anyway. And I'd only give a 5 if they map was bare minimum. But for your effort and dedication, I'll give you 6/10. There's lots of stuff to fix, but it could still be a worthy product! Keep working on it!
     
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  20. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

    Messages:
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    Tranquility:

    This is still an alpha 1 and there are plenty of things this map could benefit from, one being a reworking of the lighting system, as atm it feels pretty dark. But talk about range of color! There's a bunch of stuff about this map that could be nice, if the execution was better. Again, I have to state that it's an alpha 1, and for having it submitted in the contest is pretty brawny. There's some in depth things about the map that I'll cover later in the WIP thread, but there's no use talking about them here, since the evaluation is over this version now.

    Style:

    The atmosphere of the map is a little mysterious, which intrigues me. The use of Alpine in this manner, with the darker areas makes me think: how would this map look made intentionally at night? It's a possibility, and at alpha 1 I see no reason why this map can't change drastically. To further that, does it need to be alpine? Just things about the map don't quite seem like alpine, I can't quite put my finger on it. It's entirely worth pursuing.

    Color:

    OMG, that color in this map! You're using the night skybox texture, which in turn with the light environment really pushes the color to deeper values and richer ones at that. So in a way, you're already set up to make this a nighttime alpine map. I'll stop talking about color now and just post the palettes:

    [​IMG]
    It's an interesting spread of colors with this one, and I'm not quite sure about it, which may mean a good thing. It also may not.

    [​IMG]
    Some very deep colors that are due to the low lighting, and the lighter ones are due to the skybox fog on the alpine skybox cards.

    Negative Things:

    There's no reason to be too negative about this map because it's clearly in the beginning stages. At a point like this, there's a lot of room to explore the possibilities of how to make this map into something you want.

    I also think the layout needs to be massively rethought. The first and second stages are not very straight forward (you have to either go around or take one specific route to advance). Simplicity in route is a blessing at times, so don't be afraid to make a clear path or two to the goal.

    Also, the spawn room for blue is a little basic, and need protection from the other team, but those are somethings that can be improved later.

    Thanks for having the testicular mass and submitting this for the contest! It can only get better from here! 6/10



    Frontier:

    Like Cashworks, this map shows a good deal of polish and detail. The question lies therein of how much detailing is needed. The more detail, the higher the polygon count, naturally, and the lower the fps. It's a sad trade, detail for performance, but it's a sacrifice that has to be made from time to time.

    While the beta 2 does show some good improvements in the performance, the major thing hurting this map is the performance, similar to Cashworks. But sometimes you just do the best damn job you can and cross your fingers and hope people have nice video cards.

    And while the level of conception doesn't feel as comprehensive as Cashworks, the map is fully stable, innovative (with Arhurt's custom cart model)--just seeing how the cart is designed makes the gameplay new and different. Causing players to die that are too close to the cart? Invulnerability to the front? That completely changes the way payload maps are played!

    Style:

    Even while it's Alpine, I don't really get the feeling it's Alpine--meaning that it doesn't call attention to itself. Either that or players are too busy pushing the cart to notice. While it would have been nice to see some innovation in terms of style, you've done a good job with what was given to you. No complaining about that.

    Color:

    [​IMG]
    A good spread of warm colors, but standard. No surprises.

    [​IMG]
    Expected of a map using Alpine settings. A good range of differences as well.

    Negative Things:

    This applies not only to your map, but any map that suffers from performance issues (Zig included). Performance has to be #1 priority. The challenge there lies with how to improve the design and detail without killing the FPS. It's a real headache. Valve continues to support lower-end computers, and they make sure they know by polling the user's computer specifications. Because of this, Valve makes sure the maps they make run well on ANY computer. This is not the ideal of a lot of game developers. This is one of the reasons Valve is as popular as it is, besides making damn good games.

    Frontier has a fairly good balance between detail/performance, but tends to be heavier on the detail side. While this is a problem now, in a few years, no one will ever think twice about it.

    The map is well made and the explosion is innovative (though I could go for more boom!). A 9/10.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
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