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Payload Contest Voting Thread

Discussion in 'Contest #5: Payload map' started by Armadillo of Doom, Jan 21, 2009.

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  1. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

    Messages:
    949
    Positive Ratings:
    613
    The maps have been in rotation for a week now, and the moment has finally come :) Check out the awesome collage that DJive created; http://tf2maps.net/payload_contest.php You can review the entire judgment process here; http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=4888 For the purposes of this thread, here's what you need to know;

    Each map gets a score of 1-10 points. 10 being godly, and 1 being an orange box. You may rate each map once and add a summary at the end. Remember that authors are not allowed to vote for their own map. They will be running on the server until the weeks end, but more time can be allotted if necessary. Please sure you give a vote for all the entries. Judging only a couple doesn't count ;) Here are some ideas to get you started;

    1. Gameflow: Are signs properly used, and not overwhelming? Do the various pathways make sense? Are spawns timed properly to create battles in the right areas? Are travel times acceptable? Is there good use of playerclipping? (can't get to areas outside the map).
    2. Balance: Do RED and BLU stand an even chance of winning the map? Is there a fair contest for each control point? Can each class hold their own in the map? Is any one overpowered or underpowered? Is there a good distribution of health and ammo kits?
    3. Detailing: Is the map intricate and beautiful? Is there a high level of polish to the map?
    4. Optimization: Is there any lag during major fights? Did the mapmaker spend time improving framerates? Were func_details, areaportals, hints properly implemented? (Note: a map would not be penalized for lacking one of these components if it runs well irregardless) Small factor: Did the mapmaker try to keep filesize reasonable- lightmap optimizations, etc?
    5. Style: Does the map fit the style of TF2? Do the individual detailing choices make the map feel put together, or dischordant? Is the environment visually pleasing?
     
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    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
  2. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

    Messages:
    555
    Positive Ratings:
    488
    Scoring template you can use, just quote this post, remove the quote tags, and you'll get the code for the table :)
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 5
    Zig 5
    Repository 5
    Stovepipe 5
    Halfacre 5
    Reservoir 5
    Vipers den 5
    Tranquility 5
    Frontier 5
     
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  3. TotalMark

    TotalMark L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    331
    Positive Ratings:
    39
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 9
    Zig 8
    Repository 8
    Stovepipe 8
    Halfacre 8
    Reservoir 6
    Vipers den N/A
    Tranquility N/A
    Frontier 8


    I carefully weighed between Frontier and Cashworks, but then I realized the only reason I liked Frontier more was the cool bombcart. Cashworks is different enough to be special.

    Zig was one of the most awe inspiring maps I've ever seen on TF2, but the gameplay had its sticky points.

    Repository and Stovepipe were fun, as was Halfacre. Each map however seemed quite "vanilla" to me. Desert fatigue I guess.

    With work, Reservoir can be a good map, some areas are just a chore to get past however.

    Both Tranquility and Vipers Den I haven't played, but both need a lot of work.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  4. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

    Messages:
    555
    Positive Ratings:
    488
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 8
    Zig 6
    Stovepipe 7
    Halfacre 7
    Reservoir 5
    Vipers den 1
    Tranquility 4
    Frontier 10


    Cashworks is really nice. Fresh design and quite good gameplay.
    However; the optimization isn't that good around the first cap. I'm lagging a bit there.
    Zig looks cool. It's always nice with a new theme. But it would be better if the theme fit TF2. It has some roman styled buildings with some surrealistic elements. And it seemed to me like the tunnel was a massive chokepoint.
    Stovepipe looks nice and plays kinda good. The displacements are good but there might be a bit too many of them. I'd like some more variation in the theme there.
    Halfacre is kinda good too, but it might be a bit too sniper friendly. Another thing I don't like about it is that the style is very orange and brown with a little more orange and brown on top of it. Would be nice with some more variation.
    Frontier is very well made. The design is a perfect mix of the industrial gravelpit style and the lumberyard style. The cart is also a nice addition.
    Reservoir was very big and very open. Too much space to walk around in; and the last cap is a bit narrow since there's only one entry point plus one demo/soldier entry point.
    Tranquility is very undetailed and you can walk through some of the alpine rock props that doesn't have a collision mesh.
    Vipers den is highly undetailed. Looks very bland and has a few jaggy displacements that needs smoothing. The Layout is too open and the buildings are too big. The cart sound doesn't stop when you leave the trigger. Some tracks float in the air too. You also forgot to build the cubemaps. And if red can't win; it isn't a map you play on. I know the map isn't finished, but I am rating the map based on the version you submitted for the contest.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  5. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,181
    Scoring template you can use, just quote this post, remove the quote tags, and you'll get the code for the table :)
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 8
    Zig 7
    Repository 8
    Stovepipe 9
    Halfacre 7
    Reservoir 5
    Vipers den 2
    Tranquility 5
    Frontier 8

    Cashworks: A well-made map, and probably the longest standing entry that I remember.
    Zig: I love the new art direction, definitely a huge plus. You didn't just add any theme, you kept it consistent yet varied throughout the entire map. Gameplay tends to suffer a bit though.
    Repository: I can tell you've spent quite a lot of time of this map. I still don't like that final cap. It's really annoying when BLU engineers cannot set up a base anywhere meaningful.
    Stovepipe: Definitely my favourite. Excellent gameplay flow, and decent visuals. Just fix that getting-behind-them problem and I'll take this map to the bank.
    Halfacre: It's alright. Feels kind of bland.
    Reservoir: The map is massive, could get confusing at times. But you have some pretty neat ideas in there. The spawns were very confusing for both teams. I don't like how easy it is to get to the last point as BLU from the get-go.
    Vipers Den: I know you can do better than this. This map is incomplete. The scale of this map is massive. You should submit this as a gameday entry instead, until it has reached a higher level of completion.
    Tranquility: Despite the lack of polish I had lots of fun on this map. Is that not what matters? It does feel a bit short, however.
    Frontier: It's alright. The last point can get pretty hairy, though, since BLU has RED pretty much surrounded.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  6. bomc

    bomc L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    83
    Positive Ratings:
    18
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 9
    Zig 8
    Repository 7
    Stovepipe 8
    Halfacre 7
    Reservoir 6
    Vipers den N/A
    Tranquility N/A
    Frontier 9

    Cashworks: Good map with a nice theme that fits the alpine style very good. it has a nice gameplay, and some good ideas in it
    Zig: Nice new theme, that makes the map exiting to look at. It is very varied, but the gameplay still works.
    Repository: A nice map, with many possibilities in it. It has some nice ideas, for a challenging, but still not confusing gameplay.
    Stovepipe: I love the gameplay and the displacements, and it works very well.
    Halfacre: Its a good map, with a good gameplay, but maybe a too many open areas. There isnt much variation in the map.
    Resovoir: I havent played this map much, but is has a lot of good ideas in it.
    Vipers Den: Havent played yet
    Tranquility: havent played yet
    Frontier. Good variated map, with lots of nice parts, and a gameplay that works very well
     
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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  7. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

    Messages:
    1,054
    Positive Ratings:
    462
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 7
    Zig N/A
    Repository 6
    Stovepipe 10
    Halfacre 9
    Reservoir 3
    Vipers den 2
    Tranquility 1
    Frontier 9


    My top three maps were Stovepipe, Halfacre and Frontier, but for me, I think stovepipe pipped it. It just has a certain atmosphere that the other maps don't. Halfacre is good in all aspects, but not really outstanding either. Frontier is a bit of an anti-climax at the finale I find, despite being the prettiest map in the contest. Cashworks is a fun map, but its over detailed in some areas, and in some areas it just doesn't look right.

    I'll update when I've played the others.

    I might be being a little too harsh on Reservoir and Repository, but I found Reservoir unplayable and confusing, and Repository gave me huge FPS troubles.

    Tranquility, it's far from tranquil. Far from it.

    And Vipers Den is just messy. Displacements need to be shaped beforehand, rather than molded into forms afterward.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  8. eerieone

    aa eerieone

    Messages:
    1,009
    Positive Ratings:
    569
    sry to throw that in, just a general question:
    are the contestents allowed to vote? and if yes, also for their own map?
    sry for the question, maybe it´s clear to the rest of you but it´s my first contest :)
     
  9. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

    Messages:
    7,070
    Positive Ratings:
    5,644
    Contestants may vote.
    Contestants may not vote for their own map (put n/a)
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2009
  10. Termaximus

    Termaximus L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    229
    Positive Ratings:
    32
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 9
    Zig 7.5
    Repository 8
    Stovepipe 7
    Halfacre 8.75
    Reservoir 6.5
    Vipers den N/A
    Tranquility 5
    Frontier 8.75


    Cashworks -Played multiple rounds and found aesthetics, balance, and style to be almost perfect. I have by far the most fun on this map.
    Zig - Very unique look, although not very TF2esque. Like the layout. Although I only played one round, it seemed fairly balanced
    Repository Very fun map and not bad to look at. 3Dkybox does not seem to really fit map though. Not quite as pretty as the top 3.
    Stovepipe Overall a pretty and nicely detailed map, although a lot of the cliffs look unnatural. Not the funnest map (my main criteria) which is why it got a 7. Can't put my finger on what it is, but I just had more fun on most of the other maps.
    Halfacre Another beautiful map. I think we can all agree that Youme is the cliff displacement master. Map is a bit flat for my taste and not as fun as some of the other polished maps.
    Reservoir - I like the layout, although did not play enough to comment on game play. I found all the gray to be very bland, although its understandable given your theme.
    Tranquility - A 5 because comparing it to some very polised maps. Layout is cool. Like the underwater part. Very impressive for 2 weeks work. Should be great once farther along.
    Frontier This map is beautiful. Bravo! Game play is fun, but as others have said I find that the large train gets in the way a bit. Overall excellent map, but had to give a bit less than Cashworks because I just find that map to be the funnest.
    Vipersden - my map, so no vote
    The rest - will check out and vote before the week is up
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  11. AWESOME-O

    AWESOME-O L10: Glamorous Member

    Messages:
    782
    Positive Ratings:
    66
    Just a question, are you really allowed to say N/A?
    If you want to make a decision, atleast play all the maps, and rate them how you think they should.
    Because its always better than saying: N/A, i didn't took the time to play it because of screenshot based.
    Thats no feedback!
     
  12. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

    Messages:
    949
    Positive Ratings:
    613
    Those who put N/A for a map stated they simply haven't gotten to it yet. Though I will reiterate that you must take time to properly review and rate all of the entries to be counted.
     
  13. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

    Messages:
    818
    Positive Ratings:
    244
    i'm having trouble getting to test out the maps.
    whenever i'm online i check the tf2maps server peroidically, but it's always empty, and i don't think i can make a fair judgement without playing them all a few times with other people.

    and ouch, 6s vs 8s ...and a 2 :(
    well i suppose any feedback is better than none. just wish i coulda got that sorta information when i was still at the pre-texture stage (i did ask, repeatedly)
     
  14. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

    Messages:
    949
    Positive Ratings:
    613
    Unfortunately, the server is always empty except for gamedays. Nobody wants to play on a server w/ just a few people. And nobody wants to be the first and wait around or organize a game in chat.
     
  15. Apom

    Apom L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    366
    Positive Ratings:
    62
    I will edit this post later, adding marks as I play the maps. My personal scale is 0-5 for visual effect and 0-5 for overall gameplay.

    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 9
    Zig 5.5
    Repository 7
    Stovepipe 8
    Halfacre 6.5
    Reservoir 4.5
    Vipers den -
    Tranquility 3.5
    Frontier 7


    Cashworks: 5/5 for perfect game balance, 4/5 for art (I always find alpine settings a bit dull when compared to desert). Bonus +0.5 points for the awesome downhill ride, minus -0.5 points for the vault area which is a bit too much if you ask me.

    Zig: 3/5 for visual style (the blue lighting is meh, the purple one is ugly. It's too bad the lighting isn't neutral, because the very few areas were it is show excellent detailing work, and I'd have given it a 5 despite it not being in TF2 style). Gameplay is completely uninteresting (whoever spams the most grenades wins) and scores 1/5. Bonus points +1 for originality and +0.5 for the beautiful skybox.

    Repository: 4/5 for art (quite good overall, but some of the fading distances look odd, and the red wooden buildings could use more detailing on the outside). 4/5 for gameplay, it's fairly balanced and there is a good escalation in difficulty (a bit too many / too accessible side passages maybe). Extra -0.5 point because there's a rock in which you can get stuck, and -0.5 for the more-than-forward blue spawn which is probably not a good idea.

    Stovepipe: 4.5/5 for art (displacement work is a tiny little bit squary as compared to other top entries), 3.5/5 for gameplay (quite pleasant the first times you play it, but just like Badwater, it seems that there is no distinctive feature to make it interesting in the long run).

    Halfacre: obviously 5/5 for art. The gameplay isn't that good past point A though. This map should really have been a two-level map with 6 points total: currently they are way too distant from each other and there are strong defensive positions all over the track, which in the end results in a 1-1 score just about every time I play it. Only one reasonably capturable point can't yield more than 1.5/5 for gameplay.

    Reservoir: i'll give a 5/5 for art. The whole thing is coherent, more industrial than usual in stock TF2 maps (which isn't bad for a change), and the displacement work in the starting rocky plain is top quality. However, the gameplay is awful and deserves 0.5/5 at most. There's essentially nothing but wide open areas (as opposed to real paths), the track on the first section is unpractical (narrow concrete slab over water pits) and at the same time excessively exposed to enemy fire, and generally speaking you can't play anything but Scout or Sniper. Extra -1 for the sticky bombs as part of the cart model, this is a VERY bad idea.

    Vipersden: not played yet

    Tranquility: 2/5 for art, there is a critical lack of detailing, displacements aren't done, etc. (this is not surprising since it's a very early beta). 1/5 for gameplay, underwater fighting shouldn't be central in a map (IMHO), and there are sniper lanes all over the place. Bonus +0.5 for the cows, I love them.

    Frontier: 4.5/5 for art, a good job overall. Only 2/5 for gameplay, the train's speed makes it nearly impossible to stop BLU in the first three sections, and the last section is so full of side passages that it's really a ten-minute deathmatch that may, or may not, result in BLU's final victory. Bonus +0.5 for the fantastic train model.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  16. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

    Messages:
    818
    Positive Ratings:
    244
    i just wanted to add something:
    i think people might be unfairly biased with my map cos of a slight variation to standard.
    if you play it with fewer than 5v5 it will not work, and i made it in mind of a full/near full server type of size. i know it's larger than the average payload, but thats compensated by a faster cart speed, and a higher max speed value (i.e. it maxs at 5x).
    i just thought i'd mention that, is all.

    my goal was to encourage people to push the cart hard. rather than run out forward and then bring the cart up behind them later.


    is there any servers running the payload pack beside the tf2maps one?
    so i can give them all a proper playthrough
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  17. MacNetron

    MacNetron L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    203
    Positive Ratings:
    47
  18. mhmm

    mhmm L1: Registered

    Messages:
    22
    Positive Ratings:
    6
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 7
    Zig N/A
    Repository 9
    Stovepipe 7
    Halfacre 9
    Reservoir 5
    Vipers den N/A
    Tranquility N/A
    Frontier 8


    Cashworks: Good map, nice use of the alpine theme. I just don't have much fun playing on it.

    Repository: Nice theme and detailing, fun game play. IMO one of the most polished maps along with halfacre. Introduces a nice amount of vertical gameplay to the payload maps. Interested to see what happens to the map after the contest.

    Stovepipe: Very interesting, really loved the large rocky area in the beginning but the map felt bland. Final area very basic, but breaks up the map more. More of the map should have been like the final area.

    Halfacre: Really nice work, no complaints at all. Feels like a finished and complete map, needing no other changes.

    Reservoir: Not a fan of the visual style or the game play. Bland and unfocused.

    Frontier: Amazing map. The only reason I took off a point is because it feels less polished than halfacre and repository, but overall it has the same excellent design and is very fun to play on.

    I will refrain from voting on the other maps because I feel the maps are either unfinished or my votes will unfairly affect the outcome of the contest.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  19. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    Well, this is why you schedule map tests in advance, and post an announcement/event for that in the Steam group, which would alert people that are online that testing happens.
     
  20. Altaco

    Altaco L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    485
    Positive Ratings:
    119
    Column 1 Column 2
    Map Score
    Cashworks 9
    Zig 6
    Repository 7
    Stovepipe 7.5
    Halfacre 6.5
    Reservoir 4.5
    Vipers den 4.3
    Tranquility 3.2
    Frontier 9.5


    Finally finished playing them all!

    Cashworks-Enjoyed playing a lot, Only a few visual uglinesses and some fairly minor gameplay issues hurt this. EDIT: after playing B2 some more, I'm going to up the score a bit, it's much better than before.
    Frontier-I. Love. This. Map. I find it incredibly fun and the perfect way to pull off a new gameplay concept. Only thing stopping this from being an outright 10 is again, very minor gameplay/balancing issues.
    Halfacre-I enjoy this map somewhat, and it is pretty solid. However, I find the gameplay fairly bland. The whole map is pretty flat and there's not much exciting gameplay involved. I do enjoy it from time to time though.
    Viper's Den-Very, very unfinished. Has some potential but almost total lack of detail and current gameplay is fairly bland
    Tranquility-I really don't want to bash any map too badly, but this is just not very good. The water in the middle, as has been said, totally breaks the pyro, and the gameplay is very flawed, though the map has some level of detailing.
    Stovepipe Wells-Quite pretty, quite fun. I rather enjoyed the couple games I played on it.
    Zig-Pretty fun, interesting layout. However, I'm not really a fan of the theme and it's too far out of TF2 for my taste. Cave is chokepointy. Otherwise quite nice.
    Repository-Had a fair bit of fun on this one. It's pretty as well. Sometimes seems a little bit tight but I didn't get to play it a ton. Decent. Looks are amazing, could almost be a valve map in terms of appearance.
    Reservoir-Not absolutely horrible but definitely needs a LOT of work. Visuals are weak. Gameplay is iffy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
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