Payload Contest Voting Thread

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Arhurt

L6: Sharp Member
May 7, 2008
315
140
Map | Score
Cashworks|9
Zig|7
Repository|7
Stovepipe|8
Halfacre|9
Reservoir|N/A
Vipers den|N/A
Tranquility|N/A
Frontier|10
Contest|100

Cashworks - I really like the way the map layout works. The starting area and second point have so many alternate routes and ways to defend that it's not as predictable as the standard Valve payload maps. The big Ramp in the middle really is a unique map feature as is the last strech of the bridge. Visually it's very impressive having a mix of vanilla features and completely unique areas such as the middle part with the glass. It does fit in TF2's theme and is well balanced, so that nets an 8 score, it scores the extra point and gets a 9 for a combination of unique visuals and unique gameplay.

ZIG - Having played this map only once it's hard to judge gameplay well, but it seemed all around good. I'll refrain from finishing my score until more playing but it does gain one bonus point above normal for the extremely inventive and unique looks, and loses the same point for not fitting (IMHO) to TF2's theme.

Repository - Again have played this only twice, but enough to say that it's a very nice map that styill needs some more tweaking and polishing. I guess the point it loses to that it gains back for the geuine focus on unique, new and interesting gameplay situations. I guess that when you add it all toghether and put the unfamiliarity of a new map on top it's hard not to get frustrated at first.

Stovepipe - Vanilla flavored and well balanced. Doesn't flaw anywhere but doesn't goes beyond what you would expect from a great Level Designer. It's definately a well made map that enriches TF2's gameplay but does not score extra points and stays at 8.

Halfacre - Despite being vanilla flavored with a brown wash over it, you can see some minor details that make it stick out of it's monotone looks. Things like the interesting gentle cliffs, the shack in the first cap and great attention to detail scores it an 8. It gets an extra point for it's all around balance, I have played as every class (but sniper that I hate) and have always found somewhere I could take advantage of the environment somehow. Level Design 100%.

Reservoir - Still need to play it.

Vipersden - Still need to play it. But looks like it needs work.

Tranquility - Still need to play it. But looks like it needs work.

Frontier - It's interesting how creative custom maps can be when we have to work with art assets that weren't created for the kind of environment you have in mind. It's even more interesting to see some of these art assets used to create entirely new gameplay features. I'm voting for Frontier without taking the model I created for Lil'ChewChew into account, as it was proven that the map could be created using the Trainmodel cart provided by Valve with the Alpine theme, and Lil'ChewChew serves more to make the map more popular and unique on the communitty than provide the new gameplay by itself. The interesting environment created using a mix of desert and alpine models and textures and the unique gameplay function of the larger and more threatening payload are enough to score a bonus point. Unique gameplay situations the map provides and the completely different approach to the payload model, where the attacking team actually uses it as cover and weapon to break through defences, these score it an extra point. With a starting score of 8 for being well polished and balanced, the extra points net it my 10 score vote. If I take my model into account, the map would score 11, but that wouldn't be fair would it?

Contest - The 100 score goes for the organization of the contest and the contestants for their hard work. This is icing on the cake to have a kick-ass contest with great maps and godly advertising props on top of our great community.
 
Last edited:
Aug 19, 2008
1,011
1,158
Map | Score
Cashworks|N/A
Zig|7
Repository|N/A
Stovepipe|8
Halfacre|8
Reservoir|N/A
Vipers den|N/A
Tranquility|N/A
Frontier|9

Zig: Played once.Very unique, i believe it was quite a challange to put this trippy map together, overall gameplay is fluent up to the last point, where the crates create a too overpowered maze for red :(. I sometimes found it hard to orientate to the points, mostly finding alternative paths. This might be due to the flashy environment, where important signs don´t stand out as much as in valve´s pastel environment.

Repository: Still need to play

Stovepipe: Played in early stages, today several times, and i love the gameplay and the displacement work, the sections up to the 2nd point are amazing. i would have given more points, but i would have like to see less blocky structures on the last parts. some further details would round it up too.

Halfacre: Very very solid work. Visually absolutely no complaints. Gameplay is 100%, there is second Arhurt. I also second him on the sniper-problem, in all areas, i find myself tempted to go sniper. What would have given the map full 10 points would be more vertical gameplay, that only really comes up at the last point.

Reservoir:
Still need to play

Vipers den: Still need to play

Tranquility: Still need to play

Frontier: I love it. That´s final. The new feeling with Lil´Chew Chew that comes up. The panorama. "Why not 10Points?" you might ask. It´s only minor things. Personally i don´t like the InstaRespawntimes and i kinda miss a theme for certain areas, some seem too much like patchwork. Yeah, i know, i´m old, i get disoriented when i don´t know in which area i am. ;)

(I promise playing the remaining ones, but atm i´m relocating and got some studies to finish)
 
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Rexy

The Kwisatz Haderach
aa
Dec 22, 2008
1,798
2,533
I know all the votes aren't in yet, and not everyone has done this, but I'm going to be really anal for a moment and point out a few things:

Rules:
  • Map must be a single stage pl_ map (like pl_badwater) you may use any number of control points (1-4)
  • The cart may be any sensible cart sized model, the official bomb, snipergen's dirty bomb, the mining cars, the little alpine train thing, etc.
  • The map must follow standard payload conventions, no split routes or other gametype mixes.
  • Must be able to spawn 32 players (16 per team spawnroom)
  • Map must include these decals/overlays(or suitable others with "TF2maps.net" clearly on them) at least twice (1 blue, 1 red) in your map. They must also be easily visible.
  • Map must follow conventions laid out by valve (blue attacking red, safe respawn rooms, no ladders or other gimmicks)
  • Map must be finished and uploaded by January 1st (2009) and submitted to the upload thread which I'll sort closer to finishing.

If anyone remembers this:

PLEASE, please, please don't take this as a complaint, only a suggestion, because I realize the criteria for evaluation wasn't decided upon up until very recently, but these criteria really should have been posted along with the contest rules back when the contest was conceived. I'm sure there are a few people who are going to be penalized because of this unexpected criteria, I know personally because my map does NOT fit with the TF2 painterly art style, and I have done that on purpose.

"Style: Does the map fit the style of TF2? Do the individual detailing choices make the map feel put together, or dischordant? Is the environment visually pleasing?"

I feel a little like maybe I've been ostracized because the contest rules never stated that the art style had to fit with Valve's conception of team fortress 2. Only now that the evaluation criteria is out, it's almost like a last minute rule that was added to disqualify my map and maybe some others with other voting criteria from the competition. I'm really hoping that's not the case. D:

Again, I'm just voicing my opinion, and I completely understand that the voting criteria hadn't been decided yet. I realize I'm a small fry here, so please don't jump on me and wail on me for it.



My point here is that exactly what I pointed out about style being listed in the voting criteria is penalizing me.

For the next contest, the voting criteria MUST BE LISTED WITH THE CONTEST RULES. I won't participate if not. And if you want to be stylist about it, then go ahead and demand the style fit the TF2 style.

But NOWHERE in the rules does it say ANYTHING ABOUT STYLE. And yet I'm hearing for the most part that I'm losing points about how the style doesn't fit? Wtf. Of course it doesn't, it was absolutely intentional.

If I'm going to lose points I want it to be because the gameplay lacks or the balance sucks or etc. That's fine with me.

But just look up at my quoted post with my concerns about the voting criteria, and exactly what I said is coming true.

If you guys want to run a fair contest that's fine with me, just run a fair contest. Post the voting criteria with the rules.
 
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Arhurt

L6: Sharp Member
May 7, 2008
315
140
It's hard to state what is TF2's style and what's not, and I belive that your map fullfill the criteria of style as in: Does not use over-realistic textures or models (hl2 tex) and does look cartoony. Other than that you are free to let your imagination loose and still be "in the TF2 style" as far as the contest rules go and not being disclassified.

Now, if your style does not reflect what the judges, the community, feel like is a good visual standard for a TF2 map, then it is a discussion about their spectations and personal oppinions.

I'd like to see a new thread started or an old thread revived if we are going to argue about what is and is not TF2's style, let's keep the discussion here to a minimmum. Perhaps open a "Vote thread discussion" thread where people can comment on other people's votes.

Now big Rexy I fully appreciate your map and I think it is a unique work of art, but I belive there are ways you could integrate your aspirings to create a bizarre and surreal world that you didn't explore. I'm sorry for not being involved in the discussion, but my vote is made.
 
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Rexy

The Kwisatz Haderach
aa
Dec 22, 2008
1,798
2,533
I'd like to see a new thread started or an old thread revived if we are going to argue about what is and is not TF2's style, let's keep the discussion here to a minimmum.

I'd love to start a new thread about what is and what isn't TF2 style, but the problem is that if style is going to be a voting criteria, then it is absolutely worth discussing here. If you're going to argue style here then be consistent--evaluate the style on ALL the maps (they do all differ in style), not just point out one in particular, especially since the rules NEVER stated criteria for style.

I won't even contest the fact that Zig doesn't fit the TF2 style--because it doesn't. But adding voting criteria the day contest entries are submitted that penalizes a map--that's bullshit. That's real and certain bullshit, just as I discussed in this thread, page 19:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=3707&page=19

So no, I don't think it's necessary to start a new thread--that would be side-stepping the issue. Rate my entry however you want, dock points for my being anal about it--good ratings I don't care about, I want fair ones--I'm just not going to sit back and have my effort busted on a technicality that wasn't part of the contest to begin with.
 
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ikem

L6: Sharp Member
Dec 8, 2008
268
34
Map | Score
Cashworks|6
Zig|6
Repository|9
Stovepipe|4
Halfacre|N/A
Reservoir|6
Vipers den|N/A
Tranquility|4
Frontier|5

Cashworks - good but imo a little long, the props were all over the place, which was ok but around the glass stands i think it was a little cluttered and the texture a little off.
Zig - beautiful, but lacks some layout elements.
Stovepipe - imo to dark, i talked to nineaxis, and yea it is a badlands sky and it is the sunset but u could add some more lights.
Frontier - the cart doesnt fit the game imo, cool model though
Tranquility - lol i love this map but the layout could be more extensive.
Reservoir - like stovepipe it should brighter
Repository - i think the winner right there. prop placements are spot on, and the lighting is perfect great job

i know alot would think i am a harsh critic but everyone has thier opinions... and thier personal map style. and i based these off of my personal prefs
 
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Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
Should we count votes with no accompanying comments? It's so shallow and doesn't help mappers at all.
 

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
aa
May 19, 2008
1,767
2,820
Immortal said ratings without appropriate feedback will not be counted. I'm wondering what Ikem is up to too.
 
Aug 19, 2008
1,011
1,158
Accompanied comments on the final vote are great. I first though "why didn´t i say this things while they were still WIPs", but can´t find an answer for that. So i´m all for a short explanation of the votes.
 

S3BB0_L1C1OUS

L3: Member
Nov 2, 2008
118
13
Map | Score
Cashworks|10
Zig| N/A
Repository|7
Stovepipe|N/A
Halfacre|8
Reservoir|N/A
Vipers den|N/A
Tranquility|N/A
Frontier|8
Cashworks: This is definately one of my favorite payload maps out there. The design is distinctively different from all the others and it looks just pretty. Although there may be some minor areas where the framerates drops a lot for me that still trumps the look and gameplay those areas provide.
Zig: Only played that one for one round.
Repository: Played this one a dozen times and in a dozen different versions. It looks good and plays quite well too. The last part of the track however could have been a lot better, when you compare it to the other parts of the map AND to the other maps in the contest.
Stovepipe: I think I only have played an early alpha of this map and it would be wrong to judge it on that state.
Halfacre: This map looks very good and is very well balanced but yet there isn't anything mind-blowing, uniquely creative or innovative about it.
Reservoir: Haven't played that one.
Vipers Den: Haven't played that one.
Tranquility: Haven't played that one.
Frontier: Well this one is definately also unique. Starting with the unfamiliar cart and einding with an interesting finish. The overall look is good, but the gameplay has some flows to it though it is still fun to play all the way.
 
Feb 14, 2008
1,051
931
Immortal said ratings without appropriate feedback will not be counted. I'm wondering what Ikem is up to too.

Yeah, those are some extremely low scores...

[OPINION]
I know it's a matter of preference, but giving tranquility a higher rating than frontier is just blasphemy.
[/OPINION]
 

Ezekel

L11: Posh Member
Dec 16, 2008
818
245
the idea of having to rate each map rather than pick favourite was a nice idea. thing is that it doesn't really seem to work regarding preventing a polarisation.
looking at the voting i'm seeing lots of votes for frontier/repository/halfacre/cashworks.
however most of the rest are just getting an NA/haven't played.
at least this perhaps brings to light an issue here. for a contest of this sort, i.e. complete and playable maps, there really needs to be scheduled playing-days for them. (or something similar, just to make sure there's a chance for everyone to get to play the maps on a fairly full server)

will the votes from people who have voted for some but not all get counted in the final tally?
 

ikem

L6: Sharp Member
Dec 8, 2008
268
34
my comp crashed so I am on my iPod but I will post a comment later and I have my own views
 

Ezekel

L11: Posh Member
Dec 16, 2008
818
245
Map | Score
Cashworks|8
Zig|8
Repository|7
Stovepipe|6
Halfacre|7
Reservoir|mine so no vote
Vipers den|4
Tranquility|6
Frontier|7

i've not had as much time playing the maps in a full server environment as i'd like, so my values are derived less from gameplay than i'd prefer.

all the mappers in the contest should be congratulated. producing something like a full map, on your own, with other responsibilities going on at the same time is nothing short of amazing (i exclude myself from that though, as i'm a dead-beat graduate without a job or any responsibilities, XD )
i'm particularly pleased that there are no maps that are orange-maps in visuals, and they all have their moments of uniqueness in gameplay. each in it's own way stands out in a positive light.

(and to be a lil selfish now: that 2 someone gave me... a step up from an orangemap? that's not fair... at all come on...)

comments:
halfacre:
overall good pacing and flow
visuals fairly tf2 standard, not particularly innovative in that regard i suppose, but up to each person if that's good or bad
lack of blu arrows often made me go the wrong way as blu, since i was following the only arrows on the map (the red ones)
i particularly like the red spawn rooms where you can see one through a window from the other.
stovepipe:
"node graph out of date" on 1st load
why are there spec-cams in the spawn rooms?
despite what's been said, i still think the blu spawn looks like the goldrush spawnroom (not saying it's a copy-paste, just that it looks like it)
i found the canyony areas a lil confusing to navigate 1st few times playing
the last area is brill. very well done there.
2nd point can be a bugger to cap when there's a sentry in the cave just next to it.
the distance between 3rd and 4th seems kinda short
good visuals, it's a match to tf2 style.
zig:
has a very slow load time.
looks very beautiful, amazing visual style
great flow and gameplay
occasionally though i've gotten lost in the side passages, which all look pretty similar.
repositry:
like the room in the corner that's still being constructed.
like the flow all over, except the last area, which seems a lil too sniper friendly.
i found it to be very spy friendly in general, but i liked that. too many maps are anti-spy.
frontier:
great cart model, great visuals. nice finale.
lil confusing with the cart's different gameplay mechanics though
tranquility:
missing texture/skin on the bomb (pakrat?)
waterfall is clever idea, but needs work
love the underwater section of the track - really cool
MOO! :)
like the overall track layout, but the but over the chasm is a lil precarious for blu.
the map needs to be finished, but looks good so far.
cashworks:
great looking, but some interiors are a lil dark, making it hard to see.
i don't like that u-turn immediately after teh 1st point
love the safe-door model
generally good flow, but seems to favour blu more than red.
vipersden:
distance to the 1st point is very larger/long
missing things i'd expect on a finished map like model fade, cubemaps, and is pretty spartan in general, but not unexpected due to this map being an earlyish version.
there's a gap in the tunnel, at a corner. near the 1st point. you can see out into the 'void' through it.
at least one dev texture (on a ramp inside the middle tunnels.)
had to give it a lower value because it's clearly not finished, and closer to an orange map than any of the others.
 

MrAlBobo

L13: Stunning Member
Feb 20, 2008
1,059
219
Map | Score
Cashworks|8
Zig|7
Repository|7
Stovepipe|9
Halfacre|6
Reservoir|6
Vipers den|4
Tranquility|5
Frontier|6


Cashworks
Relatively fun map, primarily the 1st section due to the large number of options the players have, tis always fun to have a heavy drop out of the sky. No major visual errors. I question the merit of giving the attackers a well protected way to get behind the red team. And the point where the large hill is provides a new gameplay concept.

Zig
Refreshing new visual concept, map looks more interesting then most. With a decent number of people in the server the advance completely chokes up in the tunnel, a major markdown for gameplay. The part before the tunnel balances well, the part after looks like it will probably balance well, but there is no way to really be sure of that.

Repository
This one really just struck me as a standard payload map, its like something valve would make. Nothing really stands out, nothing is too bad. I simply don't like valve payload maps...

Stovepipe
The most fun ive had in payload since...well...ever...The primary thing I like is how easy it is for both teams to gain a height advantage, it really creates something more fun and original. As yet I haven't seen any single class gain a huge boost with this height advantage, so it seems balanced among the classes. The part I am really not fond of is that the blue team has easier access then the red team to the left balcony over the final point, a second staircase leading to that side would be nice.

Halfacre
This map seems like the opposite of stovepipe to me...its just too flat. The level just seems geared towards competitive gameplay rather then fun to me. The path is incredibly linear so you really don't have much choice in the matter of where you go, and even when you take another path its designed so you do not get any kind of advantage from taking another path. The extra paths gain no height advantage, they don't allow you to get behind the other team, they are just that...extra paths. Regardless I did not like the gameplay of this map, the visuals are holding it above 5 though...

Resivoir
Map incredibly open, especially in the 1st section. Once past that its not too bad, the impression of everything looming over you is there instead though. I would have liked to see it in a full server, perhaps with a few more engies then absolutely required, as I expect a choke point at a certain location and want to see if it does actually stop there. The visuals around the last point are a bit bland, and the blue spawn is an absolute nightmare.

Vipers Den
Very large and open, more detailing is needed (b1 makes it more then understandable, but this is a contest...) the fact that the red team can't win is a large problem.

Tranquility
Very well detailed, cart starting in the water is exceptionally odd, you can hide inside rock. Didn't get much testing on this one as Immortal changed the map shortly after I joined (doesn't exactly inspire confidence eh?)

Frontier
Played this map a few times, and really did not enjoy it. Though admittedly I can't say why...I recall getting spawn camped...alot, the train thing freaking out and somehow trying to turn around?
 
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Vicenti

L2: Junior Member
Jun 22, 2008
52
1
Map | Score
Cashworks|8
Zig|9
Repository|7
Stovepipe|6
Halfacre|8
Reservoir|6
Vipers den|4
Tranquility|5
Frontier|9

Cashworks: Lovely, really. The art's all that. Found it incredibly hard to defend the winding downhill section, and a few too many side nooks for me personally. But still 8/10 points.

Zig: Completely not in TF2 theme. Which made it very refreshing and fun to play, just to watch the scenery. Gameplay was very good, once I managed to track down the exits of the side paths. It was a bit flat - I couldn't find anywhere that a demo or soldier (or scout) could get the drop on the enemy, which is one of my favorite tactics.

Repository: Excellent use of vertical combat. Gets difficult to attack at the end, but that's the idea. Could use a bit more visual clues as to what I can't jump on; a couple buildings at the beginning in particular are very alluring, but I can't get on them. Architecture is also appealing, though the 'displacement pillar' in particular is conflicting, and I recall one building that had a very brightly-yellow-colored inside that didn't seem to fit the area.

Stovepipe: Was very bland, in my opinion. Oddly, the -outside- of the level was nice to look at, but the gameplay portions had little in the way of the cutesy detail that I love so very very much. Gameplay is decent, no real problems. I found it odd that I couldn't get on top of the arch to the left of BLU's first spawn; I tried as a scout since it looked to be about the same height as the climbable rock pillar right next to it. Gameplay-wise I -shouldn't- be able to get up there, it just looks like I can.

Halfacre: Lots of detail went into this one, I see. No complaints there. I noticed the advanced jump near the end that lets BLU non-jumpers onto RED's balcony - nice touch. +1 for that. I had some issues while playing - either one team would steamroll, both teams would get all points, or neither team would get any points. So I don't think I'm qualified to really comment on the gameplay, other than it -looks- like it should work.

Reservoir: Spawn is incredibly hard to get out of, for some reason. And once you figure out where you need to go, it's a long way to get there - for both BLU's first and RED's spawn. Games I played never progressed much past the second point, due in one to a sentry on the arch that no one could figure out, and in the other, to grenade spam.

Vipers' Den: Unfinished, I hope. It needs lots of detail work such as cover from snipers in the first couple areas. Also I am able to jump inside of the arch as a demoman due to massive holes in the displacements.
It looks like, with the proper additions, it would be a decently fun map. As the layout currently stands I'm a little frightened of sniper dominations.

Tranquility: Unfinished, I know. Although I like the water combat, I can see that it would be very unpopular with most players *coughpyrocough*, but it's decent. A little rough towards the end, but a good start. Also I fell to my death a LOT, but that's my own inability to walk in a straight line. Years of dodging snipers, I would guess. The track over the pit could be expanded a bit and still be dangerous but workable.
The track could be expanded a bit - it's fairly short for a one-stage map.

Frontier: I spent five minutes the first time I played this getting bludgeoned to death while staring at Lil'ChewChew. I couldn't find a single place in the map that I disagreed with artistically. The train's speed makes small-team games very difficult to defend in, but that's my only gripe. I don't even -like- small-team games, so it's a small one, too.
 
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Feb 14, 2008
1,051
931
(and to be a lil selfish now: that 2 someone gave me... a step up from an orangemap? that's not fair... at all come on...)

Hehe, fine, have a 3 instead ;)
 

GrimGriz

L10: Glamorous Member
Jan 2, 2009
774
133
Map | Score
Cashworks|n/a
Zig|10
Repository|n/a
Stovepipe|9
Halfacre|n/a
Reservoir|4
Vipers den|3
Tranquility|n/a
Frontier|7

I think it's a lot to ask the general public to provide more than number feedback, but as I'm not exactly the general public, i'll do my best (though I feel I shouldn't have to as Immortal-D used the word 'may' - see below).
  • Cashworks - never got a chance to play.
  • Zig - Custom textures that fit the tf2 style (though genre is debatable) with some very enjoyable gameplay.
  • Repository - never got a chance to play
  • Stovepipe - well made and well polished. Particularly the first cap point is fun to play.
  • Halfacre - only got to play once.
  • Reservoir - too wide/open and too confusing. Better defined paths would have increased the score, and likely improved gameplay enough to increase the score a lot more...gameplay is most important factor to me.
  • Vipers den - Really seemed too unfinished to rate...but if it is finished, I think my rating is appropriate.
  • Tranquility - never got a chance to play.
  • Frontier - well done, but I wasn't fond of getting run over by the cart, and while I enjoy the novelty of lil' chew chew, the cart was too large imo, and took up enough screen real estate to be a detriment to gameplay.


Each map gets a score of 1-10 points. 10 being godly, and 1 being an orange box. You may rate each map once and add a summary at the end.

Please sure you give a vote for all the entries. Judging only a couple doesn't count ;) Here are some ideas to get you started;

Those who put N/A for a map stated they simply haven't gotten to it yet. Though I will reiterate that you must take time to properly review and rate all of the entries to be counted.

I'm verymuch against "you have to rate them all." Here's why:
  1. Of the 5 judging criteria listed, 1, 2, and 4 cannot fairly be determined with less than 10 players, and people voting have no control of 9 other people.
  2. Unless they run their own server, voters have minimal chance of finding a server running the map, and less of a chance to find one that has people on it.
  3. If this voting is open to the public, it's waay too much to expect them to play each and every map.
  4. If you're rating a map between 1-10, it doesn't really matter if you've played the other maps or not. If Zig is a 9, it's a 9 whether or not you've played stovepipe.

In the end, I suspect my votes won't count, but I honestly don't feel right rating a map I haven't played with more than a handful of people (halfacre) and some I haven't had the chance to play at all (cashworks, repository, tranquility). If by some chance I end up playing them before you close voting I'll update this vote...meanwhile the authors can just take this post as free feedback.
 
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