I'll pay $100 to the person who can complete this project within 24 hours of this post.
E-mail me pikaparody@gmail.com
E-mail me pikaparody@gmail.com
$ Paid Urgent Request
- Thread starter SmashBits
- Start date
- Jul 22, 2009
- 1,874
- 1,258
i feel you underestimate the time required for a quality recreation of summoners rift
Sergis,
Actually, I don't have an estimate at all. I am looking for somebody to give me some kind of estimate. Sadly, nobody has given me one yet. I'm just throwing numbers around hoping somebody can give me one. What do you think?
Actually, I don't have an estimate at all. I am looking for somebody to give me some kind of estimate. Sadly, nobody has given me one yet. I'm just throwing numbers around hoping somebody can give me one.
What do you think?
I'd argue that a week of solid work (like, 6-8 hours a day) could get it done in time...
And 100$ for what you're asking is "meh" on pricing, imo.
And 100$ for what you're asking is "meh" on pricing, imo.
So your saying that I should begin negotiation at something more like $400?
It would really depend on the person who does it and what they feel is adequate for their time. They could think it's 100. But for a rip, conversion, possible tweeks and rebuild 100 is not even enough to cover the amount of time that it would take to do.
I'm pretty sure that your underestimating the scope of what you're asking.
I'm pretty sure that your underestimating the scope of what you're asking.
Perhaps before I was but not anymore. I have the budget to get done what needs to get done. I have yet to receive an offer of any kind.
For those who may be interested and are worried about legal ramifications, does this post help?
The worst case scenario (worst possible case) is that the youtube video would get flagged and taken off youtube. There is no possible way this job could or would get tracked to the ripper. If the ripper wants some sort of “protection” in the contract they sign with me – we can do it. If you want, by contract, I would never tell anybody at Machinima who exactly ripped and compiled the content.
Do we have explicit permission for this exact rip? No. Getting permission for this would be a waste of time for everybody up and down the ladder for both companies. The relationship up top is what matters. If for whatever reason we find out that Riot didn’t like us using their model (for whatever reason) – they would discuss it up top and it would be a very simple fix; we take the video down and we learn that Riot has a very different approach then the rest of the video game world.
If this becomes a popular series – then it would be worth the time to explore those connections. Right now this is just a pilot from a so far unproven producer. If it becomes popular with 500,000+ views per episode, Riot would probably reach out to Machinima and they would help me find a contact there at Riot who might work with me – like the way Bungie worked with the Red Vs Blue team. However, it takes time and an audience for those on top to think making those connections is worth the time.
We have no idea how much ripped content we can use in machinimation because there has never been a court case that has needed to look at the four factors of fair use. There has never needed to be a court case because, as I keep saying, the video game companies LOVE machinimation with their content. What they are worried about is the use of their ripped content in other video games.
The “fair use” of ripped models in Machinimation is a legally grey area. The reason it’s not black and white is because it is clearly NOT an “ethically” grey area. Video game companies love it. It’s not like CD burning which for most musicians is clearly “stealing.” What we are doing we continue to do with blessing.
The worst case scenario (worst possible case) is that the youtube video would get flagged and taken off youtube. There is no possible way this job could or would get tracked to the ripper. If the ripper wants some sort of “protection” in the contract they sign with me – we can do it. If you want, by contract, I would never tell anybody at Machinima who exactly ripped and compiled the content.
Do we have explicit permission for this exact rip? No. Getting permission for this would be a waste of time for everybody up and down the ladder for both companies. The relationship up top is what matters. If for whatever reason we find out that Riot didn’t like us using their model (for whatever reason) – they would discuss it up top and it would be a very simple fix; we take the video down and we learn that Riot has a very different approach then the rest of the video game world.
If this becomes a popular series – then it would be worth the time to explore those connections. Right now this is just a pilot from a so far unproven producer. If it becomes popular with 500,000+ views per episode, Riot would probably reach out to Machinima and they would help me find a contact there at Riot who might work with me – like the way Bungie worked with the Red Vs Blue team. However, it takes time and an audience for those on top to think making those connections is worth the time.
We have no idea how much ripped content we can use in machinimation because there has never been a court case that has needed to look at the four factors of fair use. There has never needed to be a court case because, as I keep saying, the video game companies LOVE machinimation with their content. What they are worried about is the use of their ripped content in other video games.
The “fair use” of ripped models in Machinimation is a legally grey area. The reason it’s not black and white is because it is clearly NOT an “ethically” grey area. Video game companies love it. It’s not like CD burning which for most musicians is clearly “stealing.” What we are doing we continue to do with blessing.
Fish 2.0
L6: Sharp Member
- Nov 22, 2012
- 324
- 262
I'll clear up some issues you seem to be facing with the respective 3 paragraphs.
Paragraph 1:
Do we have permission? No. Are we able to do things without permission? No. The answer is literally so simple you typed it out yourself. Unless you go and get permission and privately show this permission to anyone who has offered to help with the required skill set to not only decompile that map, convert it and recompile it in a nice format there is literally no hope in hell of this being at all ethically and even legally correct.
Not matter how much you assume, you can't use assumption in a court of law. Especially when you said that you actually have no permission and you accept that fact yet still go ahead with the project.
Is Riot very different from the 'video game world'? Better question: does the 'video game world' exist? No. There is no such thing. Every single company that exists operates extremely differently. Valve is very open source community based, where as EA are very professional and large about how they appear and create their games. Mojang appear to love their community when they don't and Blizzard kinda do their own thing and everyone follows. You must be dreaming if you think the 'video game world' is a place where everyone believes and practices the same business models - because at the end of the day all Valves community stuff is a business model. It's there to make money, to market the brand and their games. You likely love it - I do too - but you need to understand it's been put there in order to create hype and PR for themselves.
Paragraph 2:
Assumptions. Stop doing that. It's bad.
Paragraph 3:
Hey look. More assumptions. Do video game companies love it? Apparently you don't know. Refer to the other bit of your post where you tell us you don't have permission to do the thing you want to do.
~~~~
You're way out of your head. I'm not saying this to be a douche, but seriously? You think you can pay a person who has all of these skills a flat rate of $400? If I did it (which I can't) I would charge an hourly rate, and because I would be a freelancer with a very specific skill it would at least be $30 an hour. That's not to count the endless hours of research required to make the conversion.
Basically, you come to us expecting us to quickly convert a map from a different engine, you make assumptions regarding how legal the practice and offer $100 for someone to do it in 24 hours. You come across as the least professional person and someone I wouldn't want to work with no matter if you did stick to an agreed quote, which I'm highly doubting because you could just say "I assumed I didn't need to pay for those hours because they aren't relevant."
Much like a lot of other people who make requests on these forums they also show these traits - creating expectations where there is no experience, setting crazy goals and generally being unprofessional about his/her conduction.
Also, you should possibly try the request section next time. Maybe someone who has made a free trade maps will want to earn a quick buck.
Very much agree with Fish on this.
Your expectations are ridiculously high, your price is way too low. You may have a big machinima channel, but your experience with these types of things are apaprently extremely minimal and non-existant. You really should do your research into these things before proposing or starting up a project like this and approach it with a far different angle that you do now.
Your expectations are ridiculously high, your price is way too low. You may have a big machinima channel, but your experience with these types of things are apaprently extremely minimal and non-existant. You really should do your research into these things before proposing or starting up a project like this and approach it with a far different angle that you do now.
I'm sure you know this is the world of freelancing. This is not just true for those who make requests on this forum. This is true for any client who has no idea what to expect. The freelancers job (your job) is not to attack the client but to help them understand what to expect, when to expect it, and how much to expect it for. In the world of freelance, a good client (me) is not somebody who knows everything, it is somebody willing to learn as they go and who pays on time. Your attitude really has not been helpful. I too wouldn’t want to work with somebody who acts the way you have in your last post – but I believe we can all put our misunderstandings behind us and press on. You are probably a really cool guy if we had met in person. I am not going to judge you based off one post which I may have interpreted completely wrong anyways.
The basis of your legal argument is that everything I say is “assumptions.” If this was a legally black and white issue then perhaps that might be right. The basis of my argument is that the fair use of ripped content in machinima is legally grey. You didn’t really respond to that. I feel my entire argument was avoided. If you can point us to a single court case involving ripped content in machinimation . . . or a single example of a very popular machinimation that didn’t receive some sort of endorsement from the game company – then the point is well made.
I understand my time expectations are too high and the price is iffy. That is why I (as a client) came asking for quotes. I have always worked where the freelancer gives me quotes. Being told my expectations are too high is not really helpful. Could you please help me find what you think is a reasonable quote? I am not trying to cheat anybody. I just need help – not harassment. :-( This is a legitimate gig and any help you can provide would be much appreciated.
So yes, the time expectation was too high, but the pay was not necessarily too low. A map designer for ubisoft said the $400 offer was a pretty good amount. Two others who both said this would be an easy task said the $400 was generous and enticing (they were both only afraid of the legal implications). I can very easily pay you, Fish, at $30 an hour, if that is what you charge. However, I would want to follow up on some leads first who are charging much less and don’t need to spend as many hours in research.
Hey Fantasma, I already said this twice I think but this has been a really long discussion now so it is understandable why you missed it. Asking them for the model requires a lot of work up and down the ladders for both companies just for a producer who has not quite proven himself yet for a project they never heard of. The professional relationship between companies is way higher than me but I'm sure neither side wants to feel like they are exploiting the other for menial projects. It’s a lot easier just to pay a couple hundred dollars for now until the project proves itself.
Fish 2.0
L6: Sharp Member
- Nov 22, 2012
- 324
- 262
Who said I was a freelancer? I actually own a registered company in New Zealand and because we deal with video and song so often we know the legal ties in regards to this.
For example, we get a fair amount of work recording stage shows for various theater companies. Let's pretend that the company was machinima and MTI (the legal copyright holder of every single piece of IP in the show) was Riot. The company could easily come to us and ask us to record their show and while we could say "Sure, here's a quote" we actually request to see the written permission for the kind of video licence that was purchased with the rights to perform the show.
I don't care how much of an 'agreement' the company has with MTI, if I can't see a piece of paper with it written down on it then I legally can not film the show. It's exactly the same for machinima and Riots relationship, most likely.
Regarding the 'industry map makers' - Ironic how they were both afraid of the legal implications. If this didn't make you wake up then nothing will. You have two people who are PAID money every day to do what we find as a hobby tell you that they don't want to do it because of the legal implications? Even if I had the skill to be able to do this I wouldn't quote anything because it's not ethically correct to steal someone else work without their permission, full stop.
Being sincere, I think the problem is as follows. A year or two ago, I started producing YouTube videos. This was when the whole copyright boom started to take shape and everyone worried over the laws. Then, as if out of nowhere, people started to put up videos outlining what people could and couldn't do. It was amazing and I loved it. It was being like law master 5000. This is what you're feeling. You think you know all the rules because you're protected by Machinima.
Regardless of whether you are, and I think I speak for almost everyone here, we're not. Personally I don't give a damn about how much money you are going to offer or how little. I don't care about how much you moan and cry because I gave you some honest feedback that you clearly can't handle. Trust me, that doesn't bode well here. I think anyone who can help you made their mind up two pages ago.
I'm sure someone will help when you get permission.
All of this is good and all, but you still have not responded to anything I said about the undefined grey area here of fair use. That is obviously where the issue lies. What do you think about that? Is there any conversation in Australia about what does and does not constitute fair use? I'm assuming your laws are different since you have not responded to that yet.
I can handle your honest feedback when you give it. Please forgive me for pointing out your rudeness in each of your responses. It is undeserved and unnecessary.
I can handle your honest feedback when you give it. Please forgive me for pointing out your rudeness in each of your responses. It is undeserved and unnecessary.
Fish 2.0
L6: Sharp Member
- Nov 22, 2012
- 324
- 262
Am I allowed to point out the rudeness in the fact that you assumed I live in Australia considering I clearly stated New Zealand in my post? I think I'm allowed to.
Regarding the undefined grey area, I'm not sure fair use comes under hacking out game files then using them in a way that will be used to make a profit. Mull that one over, come back and try to justify why you're right again. It won't work.
Ice Crystal
L2: Junior Member
- Feb 28, 2013
- 78
- 91
There shouldn't be an undefined grey area, especially in a legal situation that can be solved as easily as simply asking for permission.
/thread
/thread
Last edited:
The first Google result for "league of legends content use policy."
While I didn't evaluate the whole page in-depth and so don't claim to be an expert on this sort of stuff, this paragraph seems to be the most important one:
This thread clearly falls under this category. As you can see, Riot are very open to direct contact between themselves and fan-art authors, so why not email them about this project of yours? Sure, the answer won't be instant and you'll more than likely have to compromise on a few things, but this way all parties involved will be legally safe and free to do whatever they need to do for the project. I know nothing of Riot, their employees, and their general PR methods, but there's a good chance they're like Valve and are very open about these things (unless someone's making money off their IP, of course).
Don't assume that everything is taken care of because you have a "good relationship with video game companies like Riot." In cases like this, double and triple check everything with everyone. Also don't assume that said double and triple checking needs to be done by the higher-ups - the more work you, the leader of this project, do, the more satisfied the other people involved will be. It also makes you look more professional, having a full outline/plan for your project and openly making it available for anyone interested. If you specifically and clearly let Riot know what you want to do with their stuff, they are much more likely to have a serious conversation with you about said project, as is anyone interested in taking up your job offer.
While I didn't evaluate the whole page in-depth and so don't claim to be an expert on this sort of stuff, this paragraph seems to be the most important one:
This thread clearly falls under this category. As you can see, Riot are very open to direct contact between themselves and fan-art authors, so why not email them about this project of yours? Sure, the answer won't be instant and you'll more than likely have to compromise on a few things, but this way all parties involved will be legally safe and free to do whatever they need to do for the project. I know nothing of Riot, their employees, and their general PR methods, but there's a good chance they're like Valve and are very open about these things (unless someone's making money off their IP, of course).
Don't assume that everything is taken care of because you have a "good relationship with video game companies like Riot." In cases like this, double and triple check everything with everyone. Also don't assume that said double and triple checking needs to be done by the higher-ups - the more work you, the leader of this project, do, the more satisfied the other people involved will be. It also makes you look more professional, having a full outline/plan for your project and openly making it available for anyone interested. If you specifically and clearly let Riot know what you want to do with their stuff, they are much more likely to have a serious conversation with you about said project, as is anyone interested in taking up your job offer.