Offensive Swearing in L4D / Halflife

[TMP]

In the games chosen, you have to realize the context.

L4D : Zombie Overrun. You naturally freak out when there are millions upon millions of zombies to go against. You can't help it, it's the apocalypse!

HL2: Combine. Seven Hour War. You're now a slave.

 

[YM]

Swearing adds to the atmosphere. In this particular game, it fits very well.

I really don't think an old bearded guy in the sky who allows mass murder and child deformities to occur, is really bothered by what a video game consists of.

I'm sure Thor is pissed about there not being a hammer in the game.

Quite the contrary. The 'big man in the sky' is hurt by every injustice that we let happen. He doesn't allow it to happen, we do it anyway because he gave us free will. So either we do what he intended for our free will - worship him and try to live flawless lives or we choose to ignore him and do our own thing. Its the latter that makes the world such a gnarled up place.

-However-

I know and accept that there these sorts of things going on, and when I hand over my money to take part in the zombie apocolypse I can accept there's either going to be swearing from the characters or the people playing it, its pretty much inevitable. To a lesser extent I expected it from HL2 and it was far less noticable in HL2 even though it wasn't out of place I mean its a pretty torn up world those guys are living in, I'd be pretty suprised if they were all talking about sunshine and rainbows (except about how much the miss them..)

I didn't expect it from TF2 however and was quite shocked to find there to be several instances (most notably the sniper's taunts and the meet the scout video) of swearing. However its got a suitable rating and thats fine, as long as you know theres going to be questionable material in it before you buy you can take the choice to subject yourself to it.

To the point of discussion - It doesn't 'enhance' the gaming experience to have these choice phrases audable but they don't stick out as being added for the sake of it. I've played games, particularly some of the more modern ones where they just seem to have layered on the swearwords as heavily as the blood effects, and they just don't feel right, so in those cases they do detract from the experience.
Taking a stand about not buying more valve games because of this is pretty silly, take a look at the current games market, of all the shooter games you're going to get swearing and cursing in all of them, whoever makes them. So your only choice really is to not play such 'violent' games and find some other less potentially offensive hobby.

To end with: lol@ Thor being pissed due to the lack of hammers :lol:

 

[DaBeatzProject]

I find that people who don't like the swearing in games should not play those games. Or play without sounds. Or play tetris, or pacman, no swearing in these games.
I thought that christians were against violence, so why playing games with violence? Hmm. I don't know, I'm just saying my thoughts here, so tell me when I'm wrong..

 

[Randdalf]

I did write a reasonably long essay, but then my PC crashed, so I think this expresses what I said much more efficiently.

 

[YM]

Don't even go there randdalf.

 

[drp]

He doesn't allow it to happen, we do it anyway because he gave us free will.

Dont want to drag out the thread in to a no-god vs god argument, but who on earth is allowing cancer, aids, diseases, viruses, newborn deaths, etc from happening? I want to talk to him.

I find it hard to believe any kind and loving god would let this stuff happen. I think we as a civilization should take responsibility of our goods and bads and stop giving easy out excuses like 'gods will'

Some of us will attribute good things to god, and bad things to evil. Unfortunately i dont think life is that black and white.

I sometimes envy people who do have a belief in god because its so comforting to believe that everything is here for a purpose. That there is one big picture. When in reality, the simplest answer is usually the right one. We create a god figure so we dont feel so alone and so we can find some nice cozy thought that after we die, we will be treated like kings in some sort of ever lasting heaven.

 

[drp]

Don't even go there randdalf.

oh he went there, sister

 

[YM]

I sometimes envy people who do have a belief in god because its so comforting to believe that everything is here for a purpose. That there is one big picture. When in reality, the simplest answer is usually the right one. We create a god figure so we dont feel so alone and so we can find some nice cozy thought that after we die, we will be treated like kings in some sort of ever lasting heaven.

I present religion to you in a 100% logical format:

Four situations:

1. You believe, there is a god, you live a happy life and end up living a happy eternal life once you die.
2. You don't believe there is a god, you live a happy life anyway but when you die you find out you were wrong and end up in eternal suffering.
3. You do believe in a god and live a happy life, but when you die you were wrong, there is nothing after death.
4. You don't believe in any god, you live a happy life anyway but when you die there is nothing waiting for you.

Four situations. The only possible way to garentee you get the best from your existence is to believe, since either you end up in heaven for all eternity or you end up in the nothingness and aren't aware of your mistake. However if you don't believe you could either end up in hell for all eternity or end up with nothing.

I know which I'd pick.

Back on topic: After thinking about it more, it is a dissapointment that there isn't at very least an option to remove certain scripted instances from games removing such words, but its unrealistic they this would ever happen since it would be just too much work for them to sort out all the different types of things people might not want to hear/see.

 

[GrimGriz]

I find it hard to believe any kind and loving god would let this stuff happen. I think we as a civilization should take responsibility of our goods and bads and stop giving easy out excuses like 'gods will

Loving god? I told you not to eat from the tree bitch! Now you and all your children are going straight to hell. I may or may not send my kid down here later to give you an out.

The easiest way to get christian's off your back is to go to that - he knew how many hairs he had on your head while you were in the womb - stuff. If they're right, God made us this way, and knew damn well we wouldn't believe in him. If our programmer wanted us to go to heaven, he'd have made a less buggy faith subroutine, ya dig?

Maybe we were meant to go to hell all along, and he just lets us not believe in him so we don't have to get all upset about it while we're here.D:

p.s.

My personal belief: If God is real I suspect he'll judge me fairly, there's no point in listening to other humans about how to live my life (nor arguing with them about his existence tbh).

 

[Randdalf]

I believe all these things are in text files all something, and you could possibly override them by adding a changed version in your directory.

 

[eerieone]

you forgot:
5. you believe in a god, find out it´s the wrong one and spend eternity in a very sinister place

and what in your opinion happens to a person who:

a) doesn´t believe in god, but is an honest and good person?
b) a person who believes in god, but is a giant pain in the ass?

that´s the poor thing about belief, many chose religion out of fear and uncertainty, and that´s also the poor way churches get followers, they address those would need honesty and support, not hoaxes and false hope

In the end, it´s all business
Religions are like companies, their selling facilites churches, their staff priests, their selling point fear/uncertainty, their product hope, just looking to get the biggest income and power.
Do you want to be one of their lemmings?

I know what I´d pick

 

[Ida]

Gotta love how every Internet discussion about something religion related will, by a 96% chance, turn into an argument with passive religion bashing and believers-vs-atheists arguments that will get no one anywhere.

Or, to use straightforward terms: We appear to be off topic.

EDIT: And while we're here; I kind of wonder how I can suffer eternally in Hell if that situation is entirely made up by humans.

 

[YM]

I wouldn't say we've turned into an arguement, its a discussion that just happens to be doomed from the start

(Too many people don't know the diference between arguement and discussion, this is far from an arguement at it's current position)

I think censorship has to end somewhere, and in most cases it's cut off to early. I know we have a responcibility not to taint the minds of children until they're old enough to make their own decisions and stuff, but I think there are too many instances where the thing's adults choose to subject themselve's to are dulled down. I mean if I choose to go see a gorey film, I want it to be gorey I don't want it to have all the gore cut out because they want it to have a lower rating so they can get more people to see it and generate more revinue. So swearing and abuse of God's name comes into this with games, I've paid my money for an accurate and fun dipiction of the zombie apoc, if it wasn't accurate I'd feel short changed - wouldn't you?

 

[Rasputin]

Wow. This is some really pathetic shit.

Pretty much. It's almost as if people are looking for things to be offended by these days.

 

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

My thoughts on the subject, since its already come this far (and I'm well aware of the irony of what I'm about to say):

I am a firm believer in choice. Above all else, people should be free to make their own choices about what they do, what they say, and how the act. However, I also believe in accepting responsibility for the consequences and that certain liberties can be limited due to the choice of the people to do so, that is to say democracy.

In addition, I also believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, which includes the ability to be offended by an opposing opinion. If we, as a collective people, begin to eliminate peoples' opinions by limiting their ability to make choices counter to our desires, then we are doing everyone a disservice. It is a good thing that some topic/word/political outlook/racial remark offends you - that means you still care about something. However, it is not acceptable to use the fact that you are offended to justify limiting others' liberty.

That said, the issue in question is the usage of "God" (or "G-d" if you're of the Jewish tradition) in a video game. You find this offensive because its counter to your religious beliefs, specifically the commandment that you shall not use the lord's name in vain. That actually stems from the archaic practice of the Egyptians prior to the exodus of the Jews, where the Egyptians would command their gods to do something ("Hathor, just as you sheltered Isis and her son during their journey, so shall you shelter and protect my children", etc), but I digress. I find it perfectly acceptable that you are offended by this, just as I understand why some are upset by racial slurs. Yet a) that is just your opinion, not the opinion of everyone else, nor an opinion which the majority holds as important enough to protect, b) you are not forced to participate in any of this, though it is regrettable the valve did not put a content filter in place like many other games have done (fyi, avoid mmos) and c) the games in question are rated M, partly due to language, which I am assuming phrases like "god damnit zoey" are part of the reason for, since no E game would include that (L4D -"Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Language", HL2 - "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence", HL2 Ep.1 /2 - " Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Language").

The moral of the story is this: If you are so worried about opinions that contradict or oppose your own, or you do not wish to ever debate the issue, then you essentially want to live in a plastic bubble where everyone is your form of politically correct. Otherwise you should understand that we are not all the same, nor do we all hold anywhere close to the same beliefs, and the exposure to different ideas and view points is part of what makes life so unique.

 

[Artesia]

this thread is way off topic, it isn't about what people believe, but what is widely considered offensive language, while it doesn't bother me to hear it, I don't use it myself. I also can see the need to be respectful of other people's beliefs, and feel that it would be good business sense to offer a filter option to a product, not to ruin the game because its an "Option" but to widen the demographic of likely players. How may people would stop playing the game if there was a checkbox in the audio settings to "Censor mature language"? If you would, why? would it offend you that other people don't want to hear it? Just leave it unchecked... What such an option would do is allow people who otherwise would not buy the game, the opportunity to do so. This could possibly change the esrb rating for the game, making younger players able to buy the game.

As to what this thread has come to talk about... I am religious but not disregardful of other points of view.

Science explains how something happens.
Religion explains why something happens.

Science cannot disprove religion, people think it can, but it can't. If it could it would have done so already.

Religion cannot ignore science. Since science is our understanding of the working of things, why say it's not true because a book written for people thousands of years ago didn't mention it already. Creationism basically teaches that science is wrong if the bible didn't say it. Like the world being created in 6 days. The Bible was written for people thousands of years ago, and wasn't meant as a scientific playbook.

So atheists, you can believe what you want. You can share your beliefs if you like, but don't ever expect to convert the world to atheism it just won't happen.

And to evangelicals, you can keep teaching your children that people lived with dinosaurs. And that evolution is impossible because you want to feel special. But don't expect to convert others to your beliefs, as what you believe flies in the face of all evidence.

You can't use one to prove/disprove the other. I am able to both believe in god and understand science. why this escapes so many people is beyond me.

 

[Kill_the_Bug]

(L4D -"Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Language", HL2 - "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence", HL2 Ep.1 /2 - " Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Language").

The moral of the story is this: If you are so worried about opinions that contradict or oppose your own, or you do not wish to ever debate the issue, then you essentially want to live in a plastic bubble where everyone is your form of politically correct. Otherwise you should understand that we are not all the same, nor do we all hold anywhere close to the same beliefs, and the exposure to different ideas and view points is part of what makes life so unique.

I love you guys :wow:

and yes, I did see the lauguage warning, didn't say what vulgar language they we're goint to use - lol - however did any one hear the standards -fk-sht- etc or did they just use the ones with religious overtones on them? If yes, then I must be used to them If also yes, then what were the phrases?

And no the post wasn't about the existence or non existence of God - it's more about why does everyone need to add in swearing to think that doing so automaticallt makes something better?

Yes, I do swear on the odd occasion, but I do think that basic swearing is a habit and I know some people who's every other word is a foul one. In movies for example, you could take out all the swear words and it wouldn't make one bit off difference in the overall quality of a movie - just like adding in a sex scene just because it's a sex scene but it has nothing to do with the plot of the movie.

In the original HL/Blue Shift/Opposing force games , there was no swearing as far as I can remember and it made absolutely no difference to the over all game play. Although I do remember a couple of headcrab jumps that made me swear - lol.

Thanks to all for the great discussion so far!

 

[YM]

I think there may have been a few swearwords uttered by the military grunts but I can't remember, gaming was a different scene back then so I wouldn't be suprised if HL1 was made today it would contain as much if not more choice language than HL2 does. but less than L4D.

They do use standard swearing in L4D, there is a fair amount of the religious overtones ones though.
Things like bill saying bull frikin horse shit, louis simply saying damn it or zoey repeating shit over and over (I think louis does this too) Its to be expected though, I mean I'd swear my head off if I was being chased by a thousand angry zombies..

 

[What Is Schwa]

I present religion to you in a 100% logical format:

Four situations:

1. You believe, there is a god, you live a happy life and end up living a happy eternal life once you die.
2. You don't believe there is a god, you live a happy life anyway but when you die you find out you were wrong and end up in eternal suffering.
3. You do believe in a god and live a happy life, but when you die you were wrong, there is nothing after death.
4. You don't believe in any god, you live a happy life anyway but when you die there is nothing waiting for you.

Four situations. The only possible way to garentee you get the best from your existence is to believe, since either you end up in heaven for all eternity or you end up in the nothingness and aren't aware of your mistake. However if you don't believe you could either end up in hell for all eternity or end up with nothing.

I know which I'd pick.

Are you worshipping all gods than? What if you picked the wrong one to bet on?! I worry for your soul man!

Also, Blaise Pascal called and he wants you to stop using his logic as proof. Don't feel bad Youme, Voltaire made the same mistake.

 

[drp]

Science explains how something happens.
Religion explains why something happens.

i like this quote better

Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you in to buildings

Religion does not explain anything. Besides uninformed guessing.
Science explains both how and why when it can. If it doesnt, the persuit of the truth begins with scientific evidence to back it up.

Please dont mix science and religion, its apples and oranges.