Now that you've played the artpass map, is it fun?

[EArkham]

Walk time isn't too bad, really. I haven't measured it, but it feels shorter than the distance from spawn to B on cp_gorge (before they added the forward spawn).

Gameplay honestly wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but last point is very chaotic what with all the different routes.

Kep

 

[Tinker]

I like the ideas that are the points, and the points themselves play very well, but the transition zones are a bit of a mess and are sometimes confusing (even with the good signage that's been putting in the detailed versions). Reminds me a bit of Hydro in that way.

I'd have to play it more rigorously on the servers I frequent to actually do a good comparison, though.

 

[Penguin]

The short answer is no.

 

[tyler]

Forward spawn would help.

I find a lot of the time, RED doesn't even use the shortcut they have to A. Once one person starts capping, they all just hang out around the entrance to C waiting for BLU to come for B.

It feels like there is no real place to fight here -- RED rarely ever defends outside of BLU spawn, instead option to defend A, and then only half-heartedly. And on B most the action seems to be at the entrance to C for whatever reason. Even after capping B, I've rarely ever seen the battle move inside. A few people slip by and ninja cap with a few minutes left while everyone is still at the main entrance.

Maybe it needs chokepoint reduction.

I'm glad people agree with me about this, though. It's the reason I didn't bother entering (well, and I saw I was outclassed pretty hard).

 

[Draco18s]

That seems to be about the experience I had with bots, although the battle was fought over one of the doors just inside, rather that outside. Although I did pester the bots quit a bit as an engie from the one cliff (shack side).

But yeah, the bots would just stand there and build an uber while the occasional scout or demo would try and cap the point (with no success). About one game in three they'd try to attack from "the generator room" (far left of red spawn) because a blue engineer stuck a teleporter in that back staircase.

 

[tyler]

I have to say that I find the artpass map intensely more fun now that there's a boss NPC to break up the minor stalemating.

 

[EArkham]

I have to say that I find the artpass map intensely more fun now that there's a boss NPC to break up the minor stalemating.

This.

10This.

Crazy how much more fun it is with the HHH running around.

"Why isn't anyone capping the point while they're distracted!"

"MUST KILL HORSEMAN!"

Kep

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Agreed on the HHH aspect, though, I played 3dnj's map also and enjoyed it just about as much as the manor event...

The cap time on A is quite long, I agree with shortening. IMO it would increase the fun because people are rushing to get there and clear the point, or on the other end, rush to get there and cap it quicker

 

[tyler]

I haven't played 3DNJ's version yet. At least, not the official version. The one from here had some pretty bad clipping issues so we abandoned it.

The exploding pumpkins help too, I think.

 

[Loc_n_lol]

This.

"Why isn't anyone capping the point while they're distracted!"

"MUST KILL HORSEMAN!"

Well, there's also the fact that if you don't kill him, he'llcome back to the cap point that spawned him, eventually.
At first I thought that was stupid and distracted from the actual game, but after farming achievements, hats and co for a few hours on this map, it is a very welcome addition.

I partly disagree with some of the statements above, I've seen some real serious fighting going in about every location between A and C. The only places that never see action are the left path after BLU spawn. It's very convenient to know that there are two medium health and a medium metal over there, though.

 

[PL-7764]

The thing I don't like about the new map is that it's way too easy to attack, and far too hard to defend, until the last point, where that switches. I found that the first two points go down very quickly, and the red team ends up just turtling on the last point, which to be honest is a pretty small room compared to other high-conflict areas in TF2. Most of the action ends up taking place in the narrow corridors right around that room - there are always at least 2 Engies with their sentries up inside the room itself, so anyone from BLU who enters is blown to bits in 2 seconds.

Also, the "house" (aka the area with point C - I know it's not really a house in the non-Mann Manor entry, but that's the one I've played most ) is somewhat maze-like in its design. I found myself repeatedly getting lost just trying to get out of the spawn area, let alone the house itself. I did find some good routes in the end, but you kind of have to explore the map prior to playing to be able to function in it IMHO.

Overall, not a very well balanced map. But great from a cosmetic standpoint.

 

[Draco18s]

Also, the "house" (aka the area with point C - I know it's not really a house in the non-Mann Manor entry, but that's the one I've played most ) is somewhat maze-like in its design.

Now you know why I added directional signs to my entry. And did it fairly early on, too.

It points the fastest way out of Red Spawn, and the signs are gone after A is capped (I decided on A, as B can be defended from multiple locations and because once you know the FAST way out there, you can look for alternate routes later, after it doesn't matter so much).

 

[Leminnes]

Well, honestly, YM's version still drives me a bit crazy. There's a couple paths that are more difficult to traverse because of his detailing. Also, it still feels very claustrophobic to me inside the house. Small hallways, short ceilings. It might be no different than 3dnj's, but it FEELs different. I do love the HHM though.

Also, as a whole for the map, I feel like it's way too easy to attack. In about 9/10ths of the matches I've played, the Attackers have won. A is ALWAYS capped. B is always (without caps) capped, unless a sentry is on it and stays there, and C can sometimes barely be defended, but the attackers have so many entry points and ways to get above the point and destroy any defense, that it seems pointless.

Anyway, it's not a bad map, I just think it still needs to be tweaked to be more enjoyable, especially for defense.

 

[J4CK8]

Yeah, all through testing my own version with bots BLU would ALWAYS cap A and B but there not sensible enough to use teamwork to take out one sentry at C. Just needs a few more ammo spots I think. There's only really one taht I can think about thats useful when defending B. (The medium kit on the balcony, the large one is too far away most of the time)

 

[Draco18s]

(The medium kit on the balcony, the large one is too far away most of the time)

There's actually two there. If you run back up into the tunnel off that ledge there's a medium health and metal there too, if it's needed.

 

[REEJ]

I like it up till 2nd cp, then it gets all about narrow corridors and confusion.

 

[Mould]

I think it's horrible. The first 2 points are great in design, but takes far too long to cap. Then the last point is just awful. There are no viable classes except soldier and demoman.
Really, they should do a Gameplay based competition instead, and then valve does the art. It would just blow the current maps out of the water.
I don't want to offend the decorators, the maps are very pretty, it's just a shame valve didn't try as hard as you guys did.

-rage- -whinge-

 

[Wilson]

There are no viable classes except soldier and demoman.

That is a lie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFfXgVYVbIg&hd=1


Personally i like it, it is fun and really fun for spies.
Also, i prefer YM version over 3DNJ's one, mainly because of the HHH. (It brings whole new level of fun into map.)

 

[Tinker]

I actually think both versions of the map are a lot better than expected, with if the teams are decent there always being good fights around every single point. Especially B is real fun and a nice place to be tactical. Enjoying these a lot more than expected, good going.

 

[Draco18s]

I haven't played on 3DNJ's yet, but I did run into someone who thought that his entry was actually Valve's map!

"There's this one [YM's] that won the contest, and the other one, which is Valve's version."

I had to correct him and he (appeared) to have a better opinion of it because of how well done it was (new-found respect for the mapping community kind of thing).

I am, however, growing tired of the halloween event BS. I don't want to play the map over and over to hope at getting another gift (playing on a server with 10 or more means having to deal with people who aren't there to share).