CP Hella b1

[Languid]

blunder of the century

 

[tyler]

I'm so fucking tired of this map

cp_hella_a7a

a7:
new C, again, probably the last
cap area on B is about twice as large and the entire thing functions a little differently
moved the red forward spawn
some preliminary detail around/in blu spawn
made the blackhole activate only when red wins the round

a7a:
door fix (christ)
removed an alt path
modified spawn timers
modified cap timers
fixed a texture thing
added some signs

 

[Sergis]

illustrations on what i was telling you about last cp idea. you could have the glass break on capture and suck the whole map in. wanted to make better pics but couldnt really get a good viewpoint

 

[tyler]

I'm not doing that Doom

Anyway from a8 I need to fix Red getting pushed to C spawns while A is still capping (not sure why this is happening at all) and probably lower the balcony over C

 

[tyler]

http://calcified.net/maps/cp_hella_a8a.bsp.bz2

a8a:
fixed red spawns moving during A being captured (i hope)
increased red spawn after B is capped
lowered the balcony near C
tightened up the paths between B and C to create more of a choke
spun the map 90 degrees in preparation for the 3d skybox
added rexy's lovely binoculars model
some detail work around blue spawn

 

[Prestige]

the legend

 

[tyler]

cp_hella_a9

I've already uploaded this to the TF2M server. Please play it in impromptus whenever you need another map and then let me know?

a9:
a lot of detail, which isn't really done
added a bit of lighting, still got some lighting to do
i think i hunted down and fixed the roving spawns bug, this time for real
finally made the resupply in red's forward spawn drop into the floor

 

[tyler]

a9a:
fixed spawn bugs (holy shit finally, yes for real this time)
brightened C a bit
fixed packing the black hole
adjusted lighting in some areas

download

also uploaded to the server, same deal with a9.

 

[tyler]

People keep asking me how I feel about Hella now, and I guess that is a fair question since I have a history of throwing months of work away. In fact I've been working on this for over a year at this point (I started this thread May 3, 2011, and it's now May 1, 2012, and that doesn't take into account the couple months I spent making a1) and I think most the time I've expressed a quiet disdain for the majority of the map.

But! These days I am pretty happy with it, as you might be able to tell from my detail sprees.

For a10, I'm working primarily on optimization (I've already added 60-100+ fps in the BLU spawn/A area). Some things give me trouble still but it's getting much, much better. For one thing I had no idea that the orange lines on the Hammer grid are forced VVIS cuts.

Anyway, the point of this is that if anyone has any concrete feedback or ideas that aren't "There is a hole here" or "Clipping error", please let me know asap. I know C needs a bit of work but it's going to be more or less the same throughout betas and into release candidates if no one has any profound ideas they think I should know about.

 

[Bereth]

I'm not crazy about the downward stairwell just before the final point. There is a balcony that red can hold, as well as a sharp blind corner on either side. It's pretty easy to get caught in a bad position there.

I'm also not crazy about how 2D the black hole is.

And last time we played this there were some optimization issues.

You can take fall damaging out of the drop-down from blu's forward spawn.

Otherwise your map isn't at all bad. Can't wait to see the detailing on the last point. Just don't make it look like gorge.

 

[tyler]

I'm not crazy about the downward stairwell just before the final point. There is a balcony that red can hold, as well as a sharp blind corner on either side. It's pretty easy to get caught in a bad position there.

In your experience do you think that balcony actually provides any advantage to RED? It's pretty trivial to spam by BLU. The corner isn't really blind either, there's a slightly longer route that looks at it the whole time. I did make those stairs a little tighter to create a space for either team to hold. I dunno, any ideas? Any specifically frustrating experiences? I think I saw it held once for about 40 seconds and that was the longest?

I'm also not crazy about how 2D the black hole is.

That's because it's a particle effect. Unless someone wants to model me one... I dunno. I don't like it either.

And last time we played this there were some optimization issues.

Yep, fixing it. If you can remember any heinous spots, let me know so I can look at them. Like I said it's improved quite a bit. Standing on A is still not great but I've got some good fades and it is better.

You can take fall damaging out of the drop-down from blu's forward spawn.

Only if you jump! Maybe I'll put something there anyway to pad it.

Otherwise your map isn't at all bad. Can't wait to see the detailing on the last point. Just don't make it look like gorge.

Thanks! Detailing will be a surprise.

 

[Bereth]

In your experience do you think that balcony actually provides any advantage to RED? It's pretty trivial to spam by BLU. The corner isn't really blind either, there's a slightly longer route that looks at it the whole time. I did make those stairs a little tighter to create a space for either team to hold. I dunno, any ideas? Any specifically frustrating experiences? I think I saw it held once for about 40 seconds and that was the longest?


That's because it's a particle effect. Unless someone wants to model me one... I dunno. I don't like it either.


Yep, fixing it. If you can remember any heinous spots, let me know so I can look at them. Like I said it's improved quite a bit. Standing on A is still not great but I've got some good fades and it is better.


Only if you jump! Maybe I'll put something there anyway to pad it.


Thanks! Detailing will be a surprise.

I just don't know about those stairs. If red has even one player up there, it's a dangerous route. It is possible to push them out, but I found that a lot of pushing occurred both ways. Whenever red was in control, the lower route wasn't a legitimate option.

My computer's pretty good, and I noticed a 5 or so fps drop standing on A, looking at blu's first spawn.

I had no idea particles were 2D in Source. Shows what I know. :S

 

[Sel]

That's because it's a particle effect. Unless someone wants to model me one... I dunno. I don't like it either.

What would that even look like?

 

[xzzy]

Oh right, we played this one on Sunday, didn't we? I forgot the name (and thus where to put feedback), but not the map.

In general I thought this one was pretty fun to play. Breaking out of blue spawn and fighting uphill towards A was fun both times I did it (once on offense, once on defense), but I'd keep an eye out for blue team getting bottled up too much and being unable to break out of spawn. Engineers may be able to cover point A too effectively, a sentry placed near the crates stayed up a rather long time given how much firepower was being directed at it. If there was a flank for this location, players never found it.

Aesthetically it's neither bad or great. The detailing looks fine, but lighting feels a little dim. I never felt like there were any highlights drawing me towards important objectives or anything. Admittedly, part of this could have been because the fighting for point A was so intense I never had time to just look around. I never had problems getting lost, which is good.

The design of B initially seemed like something that would be impossible to assault, but people made it work anyways. I heard some grumbling about it being "too grindy" but I found it fun.


Point C was pretty disorientating because of all the dev textures. I never had a good feel for the routes and the play area seemed enormous. It didn't play badly, really, but I think defense had issues figuring out where they were supposed to set up for a last stand. I never did find a way to the upper level that overlooks C.. maybe add an access route for defense to get up there? Maybe such a route already exists, but again there was so much fighting I didn't have a lot of time to explore.

 

[tyler]

The only thing I want to address directly, xzzy, is that sentry spot. First, know that I changed my name for the test and tried as many stupid things as I could to fuck up the test entirely, one of which being that sentry. I had 2 other engineers on my team helping me keep it up and 2 level three dispensers feeding us, plus we had 3 level three teleporters spaced pretty far apart. BLU appeared to only ever use a kritzkrieg on us and from point blank at that. In previous tests, I've seen the same kind of hold completely demolished by a single demoman with little to no effort. In fact, I've even told people to go engineer and try to completely lock it down, and they never do. The few times A has been locked it's been done without the sentry in the spot I used. That room can get pretty brutal sometimes with great team play, but I think that's probably fine. It's been identical throughout nearly every revision and I'm confident that spot is not over powered in any way.

It's gotten comments before as a kind of unique position... in fact the entire point/area is odd, but it's fine I think.

What would that even look like?

I don't really know. I know that many modeling programs can create particle systems and convert them to meshes, were it to be done that way. On the other hand maybe I just need a new idea for the finale--something that can somewhat break up a RED base but isn't so hard to model.

I would be willing to work with a modeler on this point and definitely give them creative license. I think it says something that across all revisions someone has noted that it pops in and out. It has to change.

 

[Trotim]

Is there really no way to make the particle effect have fixed orientation at all times? So that even when looked at from below you see the entire width? I mean basically every light glow sprite does that...

 

[tyler]

Is there really no way to make the particle effect have fixed orientation at all times? So that even when looked at from below you see the entire width? I mean basically every light glow sprite does that...

Well, the light glows are kind of a different story... but yeah, I could do this. The problem is it then needs to be horizontal (as in this old screenshot) which I don't really like? I dunno. I am consistently trying out new particles but it's so tedious and difficult I don't always have the patience.

 

[MangyCarface]

Horizontal looks way cooler. Event horizon motherfuckerrr

 

[tyler]

I'm gonna be out of town for five days but I guess when I get back I'll return to the horizontal version and see if I can make something I like.

 

[Boylee]

I have to say I always like the old horizontal swirly you had above the point. Looks like a mini galaxy. :3