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PL Haywire RC5

Payload map in the style of 2fort!

  1. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    This Update is experimenting with the balancing of the map, as many have replied that both Second and Third arent really defendable.

    CHANGELOG:
    - Moved the first point into the hut with the deathpit
    --expanded the ground of the deathpit a bit
    - Moved the second point into the double hut with the sniper sightline blockers
    --Added a closed door to RED's forward spawn to block an unwanted sightline
    --Also added some props to block a sightline to prevent snipers sniping the point from their spawnroom
    -- The tunnel is now one way for the time RED has the third point under their control so BLU doesnt have an easy way of spawncamping.
    -Moved the third point ever so slightly back
    -Added a rollback area at:
    - The hill at BLU's spawn
    - The hill before third
    Added a rollforward area at:
    - The sledge at RED last
    - Blocked an unwanted sightline at RED Last under the slope.
    - Reduced the thickness of several roofs
    - Adjusted time and respawn times for better gameflow and to prevent rolls
    - Optimized the RED BREAD hut to prevent FPS loss
    - Made the generator infront of BLU's spawn solid
    - Scaled water texture up so it doesnt look weird anymore
    - The Payload Explosion now gibs people.
    - SWIFT WATER has gone bankrupt during the development of Haywire, say hello to MCJOHN WATER
    [​IMG]

    Cheers.

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  2. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
    16
    - Added Soundscapes for their respective locations.
    - Added several lights to make gameplay spaces which were too dark not too dark anymore
    - Further optimization
    - Increased Respawn Time of RED on third, decreased it on First
    - Increased Setup time by 20 seconds to allow Engineers smoother setup and to allow people to be dorks infront of the windows for longer
    - Moved McJohn sign so it stops floating
    - Fixed an issue that caused HDR to go haywire (heh)
    - Added even more Arrows
    - Now includes modified Attack/Defend entry-messages
    - Properly clipped BLU Spawn door
    - Fixed overlapping brushes on RED last

    TO-DO:
    - Further optimize
    - Fix any small issues that might arise
    - Release

    See you next test!

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  3. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    After several map tests and feedback of friends, strangers, and enemies, the map is at a point where I am personally happy with it and seemingly others, too.

    I aim for this version to be final, but if the next test ends up with some technical issues, Ill obviously fix them.
    As far as looks and gameplay goes, these are very much final.
    Thanks for all the input and feedback to make Haywire as good as it can be!

    CHANGELOG:

    - Changed lightning a bit.
    - Changed the color of the wall around Last from red to white.
    - Lots of optimization!
    - Added frogs
    - Adjusted respawn time of BLU after capping first
    - Fixed the Announcer screaming the wrong lines when capping points as BLU.
    - Moved a support beam at the cave so people dont get stuck
    - Reduced the number of lights at BLU's primary spawn so it's less bright.
    - Added smoke.
    - Clipped some support beams so you dont get stuck anymore.
    - Moved some props so they dont float
    - Adjusted the metal plate at first so it isnt floating anymore
    - Adjusted HDR so it isnt burning your eyes away anymore.
    - Bot Support! Now you too can play Haywire without friends.

    Once again thanks a bunch for all the testing and the feedback!

    See you next map!

    EDIT: The screenshots of the map have also been updated!

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  4. Kobolite

    aa Kobolite Eternally floating through time and space

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
    333
  5. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    This version will mark the end of Haywire's development, and I'm really happy how it turned out.
    This map, being my second, taught me a lot about hammer, but even more about people, balancing, and what to do with feedback, given my first map was more of a "proof of concept" release for myself.

    I've had people I respect a lot that made a lot of amazing stuff for TF2, including maps tell me that areas or certain things about the map are great and fun, but at the same time had the same genre of people tell me certain areas are bad, and that I'd have to rework them.
    What I ended up doing is just trying to make the map good for as many people as possible; I learned that I can't make a Map perfect for everyone and that I just sometimes have to disagree or discard some feedback, which sometimes feels bad if I see that a fair size of players don't see a problem with it.
    Overall Haywire has been a great learning experience, and in my eyes, a moderately nice map I hope people will enjoy on playing if they get across it.
    But enough useless monologue, here is the changelog for RC2:

    - Gave BLU more time after capping A
    - Increased RED respawn after BLU caps A very slightly
    - Added collisions to the Capture Points
    - Disabled collisions of small props inside the spawn of BLU for fluid jumping around.
    - Moved a metal plate at BLU's spawn so you no longer get stuck on it
    - Lowered cement at the choke around BLU's spawn to allow players to get up without jumping.
    - Moved a sign ever so slightly so it aligns better
    - Made the Cow Jail at the final point less boring looking by adding some patches to it
    - Added a hazard stripe at Last so people pay more attention to the fact that it's a deathpit
    - Compressed file size
    - Moved a staircase so it doesnt awkwardly clip through a wall anymore

    Thanks to everyone that bothered to test Haywire, submit feedback, helped me through some Mapping issues or left some warm words on the thread or the Playtests!

    Workshop Link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1308849071

    I'll be taking a break from Mapping for now and focus on school stuff, but you'll see me again on a new map soon(tm). And maybe Ill return to Uturn and try to make it into something that's not awful, who knows.

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  6. G.bo

    G.bo L3: Member

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    Positive Ratings:
    106
    Nov. 27th, 2017: Start of map.
    Feb. 21st, 2018: RC2 Published.

    This map took you a little less than 3 months to complete: I respect you for your amazing work ethic.
     
  7. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    575
    Positive Ratings:
    147
    Hey friend!
    i ran your map and i spotted 2 small things that can be changed/fixed.
    the first is one that i can get stuck on this fence here near the building on the second picture.
    20180221201612_1.jpg

    Secondly these stairs here look weird. maybe try to make them look better and more fitting perhaps
    20180221201618_1.jpg
     
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  8. YOYOYO

    YOYOYO L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    364
    Positive Ratings:
    177
    So this map is really pretty, especially for your second published map, but their is one consistent problem that really bothers that can easily be fixed. Some textures don't really align with the ones surrounding them of the same texture, like the ramp basilhs333 showed. All you have to do is go into the texture tool on your left, left click on one of the textures, and alt-right click on the unaligned textured next to it. If it works, thank me later.

    I hope this isn't confusing.
     
  9. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
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    16
    Don't worry, I know of aligning textures.

    Can you submit a few examples of locations where textures don't align properly? The only ones I know of are the slopes above and the building infront of BLU's spawn - the rest should have their textures aligned, however there's always the high chance that I simply overlooked some locations.
     
  10. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    RC3 is mostly there to fix a few bugs, adjust a few gameplay related things and also add a tiny bit of optimization and misc stuff.

    NOTE: RC2 has an exploit that is very much potentially gamebreaking, if you are a server owner, I heavily recommend updating to RC3.

    Nonetheless, here is the changelog.

    CHANGELOG RC3:
    - Fixed two exploits allowing Engineers to build in unintended locations.
    - Optimized the last point further
    - Adjusted lightning in the Cowjail-Cave
    - Added Cameras across the map
    - Fixed a few visible glitches
    - Adjusted respawn times ever so slightly in favor of RED.
    - Replaced the ugly slopes with stairs!
    - Toned down HDR a bit so it's less bright.
    - Added a sun.
    - Disabled collisions on a variety of pipes
    - Added a barrel at the wooden wall around the shortcut of BLU's spawn to allow defenders to jump over it
    - Disabled shadows on a variety of props so they look less jarring
    - Signs now have collisions
    - Adjusted several textures so they align properly
    - You can no longer get stuck at the fence around the second point
    - Adjusted soundscapes for a more pleasurable gaming experience.
    - Decreased explosion-radius of the final Cap bomb so you no longer die when miles away
    - Added an extra arrow for RED to follow.
    - Updated the Download with new Screenshots because I forgot I had my aliasing off + to show the new stairs and cameras
    - Added a Steam workshop link to the original post

    Once again thanks for all the overwhelmingly positive feedback and bug reports! I never expected such a positive outcome, but I sure as hell am happy about it!

    See ya!

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  11. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Status Update: What's in store for RC4 and addressing common issues

    Over the course of Haywire releasing several Server communities gave it a shot and submitted some pretty useful feedback, wanting to make sure that RC4 will address every of these issues, I'll just post a quick pre-update log of issues I'm gonna take a look at.

    - EXPLOIT: The exploit which details I am not going to address has been fixed, given there is only a single one from what I have seen, consider it dealt with.
    - OPTIMIZATION: People have reported that they have minor frame drops on certain areas. I'm in the process of further polishing the optimization of the map to bring it to a point where even playing it with 32 players should have it stay over 60 frames at open areas on decent computers.
    - BALANCING: I've put a good eye on demos, gameplay sessions of any kind generally from what I have seen an area of trouble seems to be the Last area. I am still unsure about this; If you have any kind of Balancing feedback, make sure to report it. I'm currently considering removing/lowering health packs at Last at RED's side so they'd be more forced to retreat to the spawn room for health and also considering ever so slightly increasing the respawn.

    If there are any other exploits, issues, or quirks, I'll get to them.
    Thanks for your attention!
     
  12. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    - Fixed an exploit to get out of the map
    - adjusted some props
    - fixed visible nodraws
    - aligned several textures
    - increased RED respawn on last to prevent stalemates
    - removed small healthpack in the shack with the big window at Last
    - turned the small healthpack at the tower to a medium one
    - turned the medium healthpack at the roof-plate cover into a small one
    - Optimized Map

    Hopefully the FINAL version of Haywire so I can stop annoying Server Owners with updates. Optimization dont will *hopefully* allow Servers with 28 players to run the map with a constant 60 FPS on open areas.

    Cheers!

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  13. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    RC5 CHANGELOG
    - Decreased BLU respawn time on second point
    - Increased RED respawn time on second point
    - decreased metal and HP drops on second point so it's less campable
    - Added a wheel to move over the wooden wall around the second point
    - Further optimization process.
    - Fixed being able to enter RED's forward spawn as BLU after capping second(Thanks Alexis)
    - Adjusted certain prop heights so they arent floating anymore
    - Fixed missing texture around Last
    - Gave each point individual names!

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  14. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

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    450
    I'm not sure how the map plays at the moment but it's visually a mess in my opinion. There's not a lot of consistency in building design and the map uses a lot of miss matching textures. Also that large brick building doesn't do it any favors. Lastly the skybox doesn't really match up with the rest of the map. The layout seems interesting but I hope you can reign in the visuals a bit to really push this map farther.
     
  15. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Can you give me an example of mismatching textures? Most people I saw seem to be quite happy with the looks, but afterall mapping is an ongoing learning process!
     
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  16. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

    Messages:
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    450
    I should have done this in the first place but here's feedback with pictures. Dunno why I didn't.

    20180323203232_1.jpg
    -It's really weird how there's that line on the upper blue texture from where the height changes. Why not just move it down to the low brush? Having a clean blue texture like that right under a dirty one seems off.
    20180323203238_1.jpg
    -The concrete texture you use here for the floor and a bit of a wall has too much in depth detail for how much you use it in an area. Using it so much makes it very obvious that it repeats. It also doesn't make sense as a wall texture to have that much wear and tear in my opinion.
    20180323203247_1.jpg
    -some people may have a different opinion about this but you use these 2 Half-Life 2 textures a lot (the metal wall and railing)
    HL2 textures are fine to use in TF2 if done so sparingly but the more often they are used and the closer to the gameplay space they are the more obvious it is that they don't fit the art style. I know 2fort uses that metal wall but it only does so in one specific area of the map and is careful about what stylized textures it uses near it as to not be super noticeable. I'm not saying you can't use hl2 textures, just saying you have to be careful with HOW you use them.
    20180323203253_1.jpg
    -there is no top to the railing on this roof
    20180323203308_1.jpg
    -This fence feels like it should have a horizontal beam over top of it or something. The main texture of the fence makes it look unnatural and like it wouldn't work if someone tried to build something like this in reality. For TF2, things don't have to be 100% realistic BUT they do need to look like they would work in reality, even if they actually wouldn't.
    20180323203320_1.jpg
    -Dirt doesn't work like this. There's little to nothing holding up this dirt wall behind the corrugated metal plates let alone something to make it a flat wall.
    20180323203330_1.jpg
    -A lot of your displacements are very....pointy. This makes them look unnatural. Smooth em out a bit.
    20180323203357_1.jpg
    -Haywire has a lot of very thick roofs and not a lot of supports for them in areas like this. The only thing holding up this roof is that thick wooden brush which is way too chunky and just doesn't look like it would exist at all. Again, TF2's design is more about having things look like they would be like that in real life opposed to actually being like that in real life. Just because something like this may work in the real world or you may have seen something like it before doesn't make it look commonplace. Detailing in TF2 is very selective and this just looks too "video gamey"
    20180323203420_1.jpg
    -I had no idea this was a deathpit till I fell into it. I thought it was some kind of water route or something. Water in TF2 negates fall damage so you really gotta make it look like it'll kill you for it to make sense. Some maps do this by having a very long fall distance or by keeping the water far enough away from the basic play-space so it doesn't look like it's part of it.
    20180323203431_1.jpg
    -It's very obvious here where the map ends and the skybox starts. I know that 2fort also uses this ground for it's skybox but it manages to hide it better in my opinion.
    20180323203452_1.jpg
    -There's no real neutral area between this red building and the blue buildings. Is this a red area or a blue area? I can't really tell since the textures and building design are smashed right up next to each other plus the specific RED signs. Most maps have a neutral area between themes for both textures and detail design. Since this map uses 2fort as an inspiration for themeing, think of the bridge area. It's a good buffer area between both bases that gives enough space before things change from industrial designed blue buildings to wooden farm designed red buildings.
    20180323203518_1.jpg
    -shiny props. Also the fence is longer than the area it's in and goes onto the glass which looks weird.
    20180323203535_1.jpg
    -This area is odd. Not by it's looks but by it's placement. Everything around it is detailed either with a farm theme or an industrial theme and yet this one room is all spytech. It looks more like something that would be in a spawn area but instead it's just a random room in the map.
    20180323203552_1.jpg
    -Why is this water here? It doesn't add anything to the map. It just kinda seems like you didn't know what to do with this area so threw some water in. It's not for any kind of water route and really feels squeezed in. There's also no reason for it from a detail perspective. There aren't any pipes leading to it and it's not connected to the other water area in the map.
    20180323203603_1.jpg
    -The displacements in this tunnel feel very unnatural. They feel too specifically angled to be realistic without some kind of supports guiding them. Also why is the ceiling made of dirt when the building above is made of wood?
    20180323203613_1.jpg
    -Throughout the map, all the hazard overlays are stretched. Turn off texture lock when stretching out repeating overlays like this one so they don't look weird.
    20180323203636_1.jpg
    -There is no buffer between the outside wood farm theme and the indoor spytech theme at all. It just goes straight from one to the other and doesn't make any sense. Is the wood supposed to be built onto the concrete the inside of the building is made of? Nothing about the inside of this building matches the outside and it just doesn't make sense.
    20180323203649_1.jpg
    -You use these corrugated metal pieces a lot throughout the map and it makes things look really messy in my opinion. An area like this 90% wall just seems overly busy and could be made a lot nicer with brushes. The shadows also don't take the metal pieces into account which makes them look really weird.
    20180323203717_1.jpg
    -It's extremely obvious where the map ends and the skybox starts here.
    20180323203731_1.jpg
    -I have the same feeling about these wooden fences as the one before but also the top texture is misaligned.
    20180323203812_1.jpg
    --This large brick building that seems to be the main focal point of haywire is really really boring. It's just a huge brick texture with some large signs on it. It doesn't match the rest of the detailing of the map due to it's over simplicity and could really be done without.
    20180323203827_1.jpg
    -This is a mess of angles and textures. It doesn't look this bad from ground level but is still rather noticeable and looks very "video gamey" (what I mean by that is something that looks like it would only exist in a game and not make sense in reality)
    20180323203924_1.jpg
    -The props under the steps way in the back behind the farthest door are faded out.
    20180323203945_1.jpg
    -This may be nitpicky but how did this truck get here? There's no way for it to have come in from the rest of the building and it wouldn't have fit through the tiny door behind it. All that would be needed would be some kind of garage door or something like that behind it to make sense instead of that small wooden one.
    20180323204002_1.jpg
    -the barrel and crate clip into each other.
    20180323204016_1.jpg
    -The big blue concrete structure on top of the metal structure doesn't make sense and really looks off. Would a metal structure like that even be able to hold a large concrete block on top of it? I don't know, I'm not an architect but it doesn't look right in the least.
    20180323204024_1.jpg
    -doesn't look as weird on the other side but still seems off for that lil bit of blue building to shine through to this side.
    20180323204102_1.jpg
    -The angle of these rooves doesn't make any sense. Think about how water would act on a roof when making it to see if it would make sense. Also rooves are really thick throughout the map.
    20180323204150_1.jpg
    -The tree in the background just begins to fade in at this distance away. Any farther away and it's not there. Since it's right in the middle of the path and it's green color shows up well against the blue sky, it's very noticeable.
    20180323204236_1.jpg
    -The displacement textures all around this area are misaligned which puts a nasty and obvious line between where one starts and ends.
    20180323204301_1.jpg
    -misaligned textures.
    20180323204355_1.jpg
    -These stairs look terrible and unrealistic. I can't imagine any place having something like this in reality and there's gotta be a simpler and better way to do what you want in this room. This is the kind of thing I would imagine seeing for concrete steps leading up to a school building or something like that, not inside a wooden barn.
    20180323204450_1.jpg
    -There's no way to access this ledge without jumping, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there also isn't any kind of door on the upper ledge area to give the impression of another way to access it. Without that, an area like this would be very awkward and mostly unusable in reality.
    20180323204530_1.jpg
    -Kinda dark near the walls here.
    20180323204604_1.jpg
    -This wall looks like I could explosive jump over it and yet I can't. Needs something to look less like a play space considering the other side of the wall IS a play space.

    That's all I got for now. I hope it helps. I'm no master of mapping or detailing so take all of this with a grain of salt and they are all my own opinions and are far from gospel. TF2 is all about selective detailing and it's not an easy thing to figure out.
     
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  17. Fluury

    Fluury L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    66
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Thanks for taking the time and effort to write this, it's incredibly useful! While I personally disagree on some parts I can definitely see most of the things you are criticizing.

    While I'm unsure if I wanna continue working on this project apart from maybe releasing another update to fix objective, technical problems you have described(Fade-out issues, misaligning textures and clipping issues) if further gameplay issues arrive(which I certainly hope do not!) I will 100% come back to this for the next map I'll make!