- Thread starter grazr
- Start date
Could you clarify this point?
As for a varied water depth this sounds like a reasonable proposal that would allow me to execute the best of both ideas.
The far corner ledge at the finalé is something i could bring down by a couple units. I took the idea from goldrush where there's the sniper ledge which is impossible to get to without climbing up a ton of boxes. There's not health up there and only a small ammo to make it difficult for engi's to nest up there (in gloryhole). I'd rather not remove the entire ledge, but i'll see what i can do about lowering it. It'd also be beneficial to the annoying 256 unit high stairs on either side of this ledge.
EDIT: As for the chicken wire wall at the turn into the finalé arena, it's there to stop snipers sniping RED as they exit spawn as there's an FoV of the right spawn exit. I'm open to alternative suggestions but this is the most effective solution i have at the moment.
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pl_gloryhole_a8 out now.
changelog:
-Various additional details.
-Modified water depth at the finalé.
-Lowered sniper ledge at finalé by 25%.
-Attempted to resolve people getting stuck at CP2-1way door.
-Added a more comprehensive set of info_observer_point's with allocated team settings.
-Various ammo drop changes.
Note: People have been purposefully testing whether they get stuck in that 1way door after CP2 by crouch walking through it to allow the door to close on them. It should be noted that it is impossible to resolve this issue completely as having the trigger flush against the far edge of the door allows the door to be opened from the other side. Trying to get yourself stuck in the door will get you stuck in the door regardless, just as it will in any official map that has 1way doors, like dustbowl, etc. During gameplay this is an incredibly unlikely problem as players rush to fight enemies and complete objectives the door closes safely behind them. The door doesn't need to be tested with a fine tooth comb.
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You can solve this really easily in fact-me and Wilson worked it out, and it's in Atoll. Just change the one trigger you have now, that opens on entry and closes on exit, to two. One opens on entry, one closes on exit. Make them the same size on one side of the door, and extend the close on exit one out on the other side. This side of the door can be held open, but entering the close on exit trigger won't open it, since you don't touch the trigger to open it.
Ezekel
L11: Posh Member
- Dec 16, 2008
- 818
- 245
- i use almost the same method on the door next to cp2 on moonlit, and for locking off the doorway on gothic that connects red spawn room to A.
in regards to the sniper balcony that you were inspired to do based on goldrush. the difference here is that on goldrush a blue player doesn't have to pass a red spawn door to get up there. also the box hopping route is to a side of the area so spies have less chance of bumping someone or being spotted.
on your implementation, players trying to get up there need to deal with the fact that red players simply entering/exitting spawn are passively patrolling/guarding that area. also the sniper balcony access is immediately opposite the spawn door, meaning that players new to the map are more likely to take that path (the whole new players to a map run in straight lines thing)
for the metal fence blocking sightlines. a couple of potential solutions:
- put the gorge crates/barrelstack where the snipers would want to stand
- put a barrier (e.g. the hydro ones) on the edge of the ledge by red spawn to block the LOS. (simply hiding the spawn door can make a marked difference as now a blue sniper doesn't have forewarning of seeing the door opening up).
They do, it's just not a main one. Just like the door you have to pass on gloryhole is a secondary spawn exit.
Whilst i am inclined to listen to complaints about OP areas of the map, i'm going to have to ignore "balcony is OP" since not a single defence has been made from there. I appreciate the feedback and opinion that it might be OP, but statistically there is no evidence to show that that's a fact. At least not yet...
...there is the possibility of opening up that little white room so it can be accessed from the front, allowing BLU direct access, particularly for non-jump perk classes. Although i had originally intended it to be a forward position for BLU to be able to occupy.
I might use more of the hydro fences to block LoS to the spawn. What do people think of me joining the platforms at the corner of the spawn room so top people needing to jump the handrail fence.
I don't really want the door to be held open from one side. I guess it depends on whether people camp the other side too much.
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pl_gloryhole_a9 out now.
changelog:
-Various additional aesthetics, notably spotlights.
-Added 4th spawn exit for RED at last.
-reduced minimum depth of water at last from 48 to 32.
-Connected catwalks on either side of RED spawn at last.
-Removed chickenwire wall at last's final corner.
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pl_gloryhole_b1
Gameplay
The main problem with gameplay in this map is that it is rather messy. There are a lot of flanking routes, that are barely used by anyone, just causing confusion among players. Most of the time players tend to follow the payload track, which of course isn't bad, but there should be some variety in gameplay space they experience.
The 2nd Dynamic element, really removes any fun of being an attacker, actually most of the area around the 1st capture point offers more advantages for red team, rather that balancing it, between both of the teams.
Poor clipping, in most of the map, especially the later areas, really make gameplay chokey, and players often will get stuck either by moving too close near beams, or hitting a unclipped prop.
Then the problem with last area is that opposite to the 1st capture point, it offers more advantage for blue team rather than red team, often resulting in a heavy roll, which red team isn't able to stop.
Balance
Most of the balance issues in this map come from the 1st capture point, and the area around it. Not only it has a strong sentry spot, which rarely can get destroyed without a skillful spy, or a good medic+demo/soldier combo. There also is that annoying dynamic element, which is the main cause of losing the map in early stage. Most of the time blue team manages to push the cart to the element, activating it, but however, they lose the match because of the lack of time, and that the element turns slowly. A good way to fix this would be moving the capture point before the element, which would add time required for it to turn.
This is the reason for the difficulty curve to go off, and over 70% wins for Red team, against less than 30% for blue team.
Class wise, however, the map did feel quite balanced, with both chokes and height, and also it didn't lack open areas. Although, often the cramped space made the gameplay really bad, making spies and pyros dominate in low area buildings, especially in 2nd capure point.
Dynamic element
Well, it really depends on whether people like the main dynamic element, or not. When playing the map first time people had a hard time to understand what to do in the first dynamic element part. Even though it is labeled as control point, it has caused some confusion. And even now, people tend to not notice that you have to stand on that small control point area, which causes the cart move forward. Although still, this is a creative way of making a nice dynamic element.
However, further ones weren't that needed. While i still agree about the need of 2nd Dynamic element, which actually causes the main Balance issues round wise in this map. The next 2 elevators could be easily replaced, and usage of ramps would be preferred. Both of those elevators didn't add up anything, and i'll just repeat for another time, that elevators aren't the most dynamic thing that you could have in a map.
Talking about last rollforward zone, it's a pain in the ass for Red team to do anything out there, since Blue team can just push the cart down and win. It's a really bad rollforward zone which makes me thing, that it was a last minute addition. Since,gaining access to enemy gloryhole shouldn't be that easy!
Aesthetics
Most of the map aesthetics wise is rather simple. It doesn't heavy any heavy detailing, i'd say it fluctuates between being a map in late alpha stage or really early beta stage. The plus is that the map is detailed, but however, it loses quite a lot of score on how it is detailed.
Not that noticeable in the early part of them, but however in the last areas of the map, you can notice repetitive walls, rather simple buildings, and unneeded prop spam.
Also, this is another map which uses more metal for red team, than blue team, especially in the last capture point, where metal dominates the map.
Even though the first part of buildings indoors are semi decent detailed, later on, there will be some, if none detailing at all. Red spawn as one of the examples.
Some things, that I have noticed:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10000.jpg
Evil dev texture.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10001.jpg
It's hard to jump back up, if you fall down here.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10002.jpg
I'm not a fan of enclosing windows like this.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10003.jpg
This is the best example of that prop spam, which not only looks bad, it makes no sense.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10004.jpg
In my opinion, these 4 lamps look strange.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10005.jpg
Once you fall down here, you have to go a long way back up to get to the track.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10006.jpg
Example of the choke area, bad clipping makes it only worse.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10007.jpg
I thought i could jump out there.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10008.jpg
Repetitive texturing.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10009.jpg
Explosion and the pit really causes a huge fps drop.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10010.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10015.jpg
Unclipped stairs in and near spawn.. eh..
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/gloryhole/pl_gloryhole_b10014.jpg
Most boring spawn ever.
Performance
Performance wise the map had no fps issues, but however, the map lost some score due to the bad clipping, which made players often get stuck.