PLR Frostfell a10

Made by Tom Hoen

  1. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    [​IMG]

    Welcome to Frostfell!

    Does your drink have ice cubes? Do you know where they come from? No? Then here's the answer!

    Welcome to Frostfell!

    We deliver best ice cubes in the world and we're proud of it! Our ice cubes are mined from deep withing the frostfell and are delivered by mine tracks through hills and dynamic doors and more hills. Why? Because it's cold out there and our ice cubes have extra flavor*.

    *May contain blood, bones and traces of battle

    -----

    Map made by : Tommi 'Tom Hoen' Kasurinen

    My entry for the 7th Major Contest "Dynamic" Payload. My intends with this map is simply finish it and be proud of it.

    Thanks to:
    A Boojum Snark for Ultimate Mapping Resource Pack
    yyler for great lighting tutorial
    Fr0Z3n for explaining what was wrong with my ending
    TF2maps community for support
    My friends for support, cheer and bug hunt

    Huge thanks to my friend Tero Isoniemi for bug hunting and suggestions!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  2. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Let me just say I'm incredibly sad I didn't think of this name first, because I really like it.
     
  3. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    The hallways might be a little too tight for the cart to slip through with people pushing on the sides, but I'd need to run through it to check.
     
  4. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    Alpha 1 released. Should get this tested soon!
     
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I only played about 10 minutes of this map, but I liked what I saw. I felt though the exterior area's were very jagged and I was constantly looking upwards. All in all though, a very good start.


    I think I left feedback in the system too.
     
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  6. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks Fr0Z3n for your supporting words. I will make some changes and try somehow make it more obvious where the cart is in the beginning. Also I suck at displacements but I'll improve them for sure. I may have time to map near weekend so I'll post some images then.
     
  7. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    Thinking of changing my layout to this (Left is new layout and right is the old): [​IMG]

    At the moment I feel that my endings are too far away from each others and this doesn't put pressure in the end. In the new design there would be hearts beating as both teams could see each others pushing towards the end.

    Also I thought maybe the end could be same point for both and winning team would lauch their cart in the air and have huge fireworks yelling their name and colors.


    -----EDIT----
    I'll edit this to thanks Fr0Z3n for his post under this. I totally had forgotten the fog :O
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
  8. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I like the "both teams final points are the same" Its much like pipeline final ... not too sure about the fireworks.


    Also, for future reference, when taking overhead shots, in console, if you turn fog_enable 0 and fog_override 1 (it is whatever is opposite of the stock defaults they give you) ... you can get rid of the over head fog and have a clearer view of the map.
     
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  9. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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  10. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    map was cool. felt a bit open in some places, but overall quite good.
     
  11. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    for the last CP you should tick the flag that says "hide CP".
     
  12. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Hey so I like this pretty well!

    I kinda feel like the track is too long, though. I feel like after the crossover you could cut out maybe 1/3 of the track to the end by just straightening it out a bit? And beyond that, you've got a ton of tight corners and spaces around the cart, or places where you can only push from one side. If you made those spots bigger and easier to move around in you'd have something great here.

    I left some feedback on your map when we played it earlier, so did others. Go take a look.
     
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  13. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    [​IMG]
    Hopefully displacements are not anymore jagged.

    [​IMG]
    Added third exit (one way only).

    [​IMG]
    Sideroute into the facility has been modified and it's now more interesting to run.

    Don't know if I will add anything more before next test.
     
  14. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    [​IMG]
    Redid sideroute around the dynamic door.

    [​IMG]
    Spawn with more arrows and left side showing the new exit.

    [​IMG]

    Code:
     [B]Alpha 4 a[/B]
    -Added third exit for both spawns
    -Delayed cart pushzone enabling 2 seconds after the dynamic door has been raised
    -Remade the sideroute around the dynamic door
    -Remade some displacements
    -Made some changes to the room after dynamic door
     
  15. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    Gameday bump:

    Problems:
    Spawn:
    -are easy to camp
    -can't see outside
    +might get fixed by adding windowed doors or barbedwire doors aka setupdoors

    Ending:
    -easy to win after passing enemys spawn
    -hard to defend
    -far away from defenders

    compared to previous ending which was:
    +easy to defend
    +had to focus to survive while pushing

    The thing is that I'd like to keep the ending where both teams try to push into same pit but is it possible to have ending similar to first one and still the same pit for both teams? That's what I'm going to find out.
     
  16. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    Heyy! Alpha 6 released.
    - Changed the spawns a little and merged two spawn exits into one
    - Added more length to ending pushzone
    - Raised middle exit. Hopefully this prevents some of spam and camping


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Preface: I have to say that this map is really compact, I have yet to be able to determine if this is good or bad; so far, good. (I like the map!)

    First, for the approach to the cross-over: The cross-over and the ramp is okay, that seems to play out well. One thing I would suggest is adding some sort of window right here:

    [​IMG]
    And window here would help teams see what is coming, and better prepare. Decide if they want to flank, or stay together.

    The reason for this is that, when you look at the other maps, you can tell relatively early on in who's riding the cart. The exception being hightower, but hightower doesn't have a rollback ramp THAT early into the map (Edited for clarification). The fact you do changes things. Simply adding that visibility for teams, though, will help. I don't think that having an easily flanked ramp so early in the game is an issue, it hasn't been so far in frostfell, but it is something worth paying attention to later. (that is, you can easily flank from the top or the bottom of the ramp. The trade off though is that the pushing team gets height advantage over lower-attackers, but lower attackers get the cover of the corners).

    Secondly, spawns, spawn-camping and your finale: A subtle thing really. If you look at how your finale is with respect to opposing team spawn, you see that it is moving away from the spawn, which means it is theoretically getting easier to push the cart the closer you are to the end. It should be the other way around.

    [​IMG]
    See, it moves away!

    As you push the cart up the hill, the pushing team gains height advantage over the mid spawn. Since mid spawn is the closest and most apparent best place to go, teams will push straight from there. Why? Because it is the quickest to get to. Downside is there there isn't a lot of cover and no quick way to height advantage. You'll see that the pushing team will have a couple people lingering there to weaken or kill anyone who leaves from there. (And just as a note, it takes 10 seconds for a heavy to run from spawnpoint, to the upper battlements through spawn. This is just a bit longer than it takes a team to push the cart up the hill)

    A good example of this is hightower. You can go left, and take the first right very quickly, and be in a safe-advantageous position. The enemy team can not get up there easily, which is why you don't see a -lot- of spawn camping (It still happens, but is easily fixed because of the next point I'm about to make....). From the lower spot, you can easily access a higher spot (there is even a safe way to the higher spot). So the way those spawns are set up, you get 1) Safety 2) decent advantage and 3) Mobility to a better advantageous spot. Also, relative to the spawn doors, the final push is not moving.

    [​IMG]
    You can see here, there is cover, visibility onto the point, and a clear direct route to a higher advantage.

    Suggestion for fix of spawns: Make it so that you have to pass to lower spot to the higher spot in spawn, and/or add a quicker, more direct route up to the higher-level spot from spawn. Also, you could look into removing the stairs to the mid spot to prevent camping (much like hightower). Trade off is, you get a quick, straight platform to action, but when you get off, you have to take a "long" route back.

    Suggestion for a fix of the finale: Make it parallel to the spawn or angle towards. (thats on you)

    Ummm... I'll probably be coming back and making things more coherent, but if you have questions. You know where to find me.

    EDIT: Also, signage. Resupply, battlements, arrows, etc. Even in alpha, those are really needed if they aren't clear.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  18. Tom Hoen

    Tom Hoen L6: Sharp Member

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    I actually had planned chickenwires for that block near cross-over but somehow it seems like I had forgotten them. Will add them into next version and see how it plays.

    The ending has always been the problematic, so thank you Fr0Z3n for your help. I'd like to say that this map is my first real map which Im going to finish and put effort in it so Im glad for any help I get.

    Here's couple of variations of new ending drawn by me:
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    You want something for your final that is harder the closer you get. Try something that gives an adrenaline rush when you're right near the top and the enemy is is coming up after you. a hill with a platform overlooking the cliff you have would work. (look at pipelines, but with not as much as deathpit, and it falls down the cliff when capped.)
     
  20. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    FWIW I like the snowpile idea