Dare

[Walker]

Bump for the impromptu testing a little bit ago.

From what I saw, scouts just ran back and forth capping and weren't able to be caught because there was too much space, and it overall felt like the battle wasn't at all focused. My problem right now is how exactly to go about narrowing the middle area without significantly altering the major structures there. Any suggestions?

 

[owly-oop]

The fighting area is just too flat and too open. I can't really give much feedback other than a major redesign.

 

[Walker]

Alpha 5a is out!

Download
changelog: 3/2/10-a5a-
*Regained access to towers at mid.
*Narrowed mid a little.
*Replaced dump truck with a proper building.
*Added some small ammo packs to mid.
*Removed garage side ramp and sealed off the door it led to.
*Textured BLU spawn and the bridge.
*Fixed both teams being able to see into each others spawns from mid.
*Made garage slightly tighter.
*Players can now walk through the gap in the rails.
*Reduced return timer to 45 seconds.

 

[Walker]

Bump (again...) for the impromptu gameday.

Sentries on top of the new building seemed a bit powerful, but I think that was just the one team's inability to realize that it was easy to destroy from on top of the pipes/the alley area in general. I do think I'll be redoing that section yet again, though.

One or two people also commented that the intel should be brought out a little farther so that spawn camping wasn't so much of an issue, but I'm not entirely sure where I should put it.

 

[Rikka]

When that sentry was up the enemy team was pushing hard on our left side of the map, which was our only exit. This made it really hard to get a chance to get on the pipe to attack the sentry. It was done though, but as I didn't see it I can't be sure if really was just a lack of awareness beforehand or there was a break in the spam.

Part of the problem I feel with the map is that it seems very uninspired. It just doesn't seem to do anything that stands out. I don't think it's really or anything, just boring.

 

[Ida]

Big improvements over your previous long sightlines. All I can think of that really needs a change is the fact that you can see the intelligence from right outside your spawn. That building needs to be moved, rotated or something.

 

[DaBeatzProject]

I gotta agree with Muffin Man. I really enjoyed the map! My only complaint is that it's all a bit flat.

Some screenshots:
There are a LOT of tiny sideroutes that can be too easy for scouts running away with the intel, like here:

This is a massive sniperline:

Same here:

I really enjoyed playing this map. I can't wait till the next version!

 

[grazr]

I didn't get to play this properly because of dinner but i did get to walk through your map and kill a few people before leaving.

There are a lot of obstacles in this map, which feel more in the way than as convinient cover. The map appeared to be very soldier friendly, with a lot of high ground and only key points that accessed them, whilst other places remained only accessible to scouts, soldiers and demos. The narrow pathways that weave around these obstacles are fairly confined and further emphasise the power of splash damage weapons.

You need to define your routes more, and work your scenery in and around your layout and predicted player movement, rather than throwing props into your map; as they just clutter the area. It might otherwise suit death match style play, but not a class based game like TF2, particularly ctf mode.

Your map felt kinda cramped as a result of all the props and walls and stuff. Open up some areas so that they can properly be faught through and in.

 

[Walker]

I really enjoyed playing this map. I can't wait till the next version!

You didn't have to wait long!

Download!

Changes from a5a:
*Reduced spawn times.
*Redid the building outside the garage.
*Moved the intel room farther away from the spawn room.
*Added a building between the intel room and spawn.

 

[Walker]

Gameday bump.

 

[grazr]

I believe everything i said in my last post still counts here. A lot of large pieces of cover that get in the way more than anything. Widen the middle to give people more room to breathe.

Sentry placement seemed pretty eratic. I dunno whether that was because there wasn't really a location one could really settle, or just the habits of the engi's we were playing with. You need to consider influencing the engi into choosing specific locations. This allows people to anticipate sentry nests, but not necasserily always be sure. On this map people were constantly running into level 1-2 sentries. Which is partly as a result of all the cluttered props.

In order to define the middle battlegrounds a bit more, you might consider removing the hut in the centre of the bridge, placing the health under the bridge, and moving the smaller health kits to either side, if not removing them altogether.

On a last note. Coming out of the right base exit, i always ran up those stairs. Maybe i was just too tired to pay proper attention but i ran up those stairs like 5-6 times only to find it a small room with a window i couldn't jump out of. If you put the stairs less out of the way of people advancing, they will be less likely to just run up the stairs.

 

[H-land]

I loved the changes I saw, for the most part. The new middle is great, in my opinion- the path beside the new... little... building thingy that connects with the middle manages to feel comfortable, like the path behind the building by Dustbowl 2-1, rather than the deathtrap that the empty space by the warehouse did. The new battlements by the intel seem lackluster, though, as they're hard to shoot out of, congested feeling, and don't have enough of an advantage in sightlines to justify confining one's self as you'd have to to use them.

That's pretty much it.

 

[Walker]

Alright, so I've taken grazr's feedback into consideration (thank youuu) and I think I've cleared up the middle considerably. However, I'm a little uncertain what to do with the stairs; as it stands they seem a bit in the way, and I've got three options for helping it in mind.

Option 1: Turn the stairs around, and they stay on that side.
Option 2: Move the stairs to the other side & turn them around.
Option 3: Move the stairs to the other side & curve them around the wall.

I prefer option 3, but I'd like to see your opinions.

 

[H-land]

I'm going to have to say that I'd like to see if Option 1 can't work, since I liked the side alley type thing so much, but I'd say that Option 3 would be my second choice.

 

[owly-oop]

I vote option 3 so there can be a defendable position that isn't on the flat ground

 

[lana]

Vertex manipulate this so that it isn't broken

 

[Walker]

Alpha 7 is out!

Download
Changelog:
*Cleaned up the intel room roof
*Replaced the buildings outside spawn with a truck
*Redid towers at mid
*Widened mid
*Moved the medium health kit on the bridge to underneath the bridge
*Redid stairs going up to the side building at mid
*Added an alcove to the bottom of the aforementioned building
*Added a raised section to the alley area
*Added a room for snipers
*Removed railings at mid

Updating screenshots shortly.

 

[Mr.Blob]

Open up Mid some more.
Make the garage door bigger.
Open up the intel room a bit more. (easily spammed)

Edit: remove the window looking at spawn, snipers can spawn camp.

Edit#2:

 

[Walker]

That window hasn't been a problem in either of the tests so far, and players can just walk behind the truck, so I'm not at all worried about it for now.

That raised section is probably getting a size reduction anyway.

Overall this is probably my favorite version so far, so I think I'll try to get some 6v6 testing in at this point.

 

[Walker]

ctf_DARE_a8 is out!

Download

Changelog:
*Added metal sheets to the tower supports to block sightlines
*Removed raised section in the alley
*Removed sniper room outside spawn
*Placed medium health back on the bridge
*Reduced health below the bridge to small
*Added spectator cameras
*Opened up the intel room some more

Might be more, but I can hardly remember.