ctf_sandbox...

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Pink_Panther, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    Well, i thought I would see what you think of this one. Its my first ever attempt at a ctf map, so hopefully I got the flow about right and enough ways through to make it not stalemate for an hour.

    The idea is the 90's phrase 'Welcome to the sandbox' in reference to the arabian desert. So, I made a modified an existing texture to get a tan one(included in bsp). The wind kicks up from time to time and blows some dust around. I did make an effort to make it less realistic than my usual and opted for a more standard tf2 feel.

    If anyone here has ever played one of my maps, they will know I am a little unusual and always add something not in normal maps and this one is no different. The intel is in an intel vault with a faulty computer so it opens and closes itself on a timer. (15s closed, 30s open)

    I also added landmines to the side areas and marked them with 'danger' signs. The landmines move slowly (speed 1) to keep the minefield unpredicable, but the texture on the triggers is visable and a slightly different color than the sand. After they explode, they disappear for 30 seconds and reset. (note: they are shootable to clear them out). Your asking why: I added them because I can and if forced the movement flow off the edges and into the middle so you get people crossing from one corner to the far corner instead of just straight across the map. It should force a more dynamic game flow. And for the brave, you can get across the mine fields by shear luck or stratigery.

    note: the cubemaps are not complete, so the reflections feel very strange

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    http://www.pinksrealm.com/maps/ctf_sandbox.zip

    Let me know what you think.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2009
  2. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    map updated, probably final if nobody finds problems.

    changes:
    - fixed spectator cameras
    - got reflections to build correctly (not sure what i did differently to make it work)

    ctf_sandbox.zip
     
  3. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Is that sand actually an HL2 material? Normally people would not like this, and while I don't, I ask because it looks just like a specific HL1 texture to me. o_o
     
  4. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    its a modified version of a HL2 texture.

    I am aware that some individuals frown on the use of non-tf2 textures. Frankly, I dont see this as a problem when there isnt a tan sand color texture in any of the game versions. Because I like for my maps to feel somewhat realistic, i picked a starter texture that met my needs. Also, with the texture covering most the outer area, using a cartoonier tf2 type texture would probably look pretty crappy.
     
  5. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

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    I personally dont like the HL textures but im pretty sure Id enjoy playing your map :)
     
  6. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    Using HL2 textures makes the visual design clash alot.
    The smooth designs of TF2 doesn't fit some dirty detailed concrete.
    It's not that hard to make it look good with TF2 textures; Valve gave us alot of good ones to work with.
     
  7. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

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    Also, if worst comes to worst you could try to edit/create textures for use with your map...
     
  8. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    A sand map is interesting. I'm not even going to tell you what I think of the HL2 textures, though. I'm sure you know it.
     
  9. Zeewier

    Zeewier L9: Fashionable Member

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    I think that sand texture uses a bump, you could use that on a tf2 texture to get that wavy sand look :)
     
  10. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    the bump map only compliments the colored portion of the texture. if the bump map doesnt match up with the darks and lights of the colors, then it just looks like well, crap. its a matter of lighting angles. the bump map doesnt provide deep enough trenches to cause shadow variation unless your working with sun angles under probably 10degrees if even then.

    it is an editted texture...original texture is nature/sandfloor010a. I have tried making repeating textures in the past, but they turn out pretty crappy because I get seams. Yea, i could learn how to get rid of those, but then I would have to remove more time from the almost non-existant life that i have left after mapping, work and keeping my wife from hitting me with a cast iron skillet.

    ok, i think i will jump on my soap box a little. yes, valve created a theme for a game. yes, it work well and people love it. but if everyone uses only that theme it just makes maps into carbon copies of everything else that has been created. Some put variation into the game by making new play styles and they get praise, some put variation by making new props and textures that copy that existing theme and get praise. I choose to deviate from a theme because I get bored with the stagnit nature of mapping visual carbon copies. I don't look for praise when i make a map, i just make the map I want to play and hope others want to join in.

    In this case I asked the community for a review of a complete map. If a single texture choice is enough to over shadow the review of a complete map, is there really any point of a review? there are other parts of this map. There are other bends in the game play there. what about those? what about the areas of the map that do have a tf2 theme? Asthetics are just on part of a map.

    Game play?
    Originality?
    Balance between teams?
    any entity errors?
    etc...
     
  11. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Personally I don't find a lot of time to check or test people's maps regardless of how they look. I only make gameday every other week if I can. I'd suggest tossing it into the next gameday whenever it shows up if you want testing and review. People will play it then whether it's orange or tf2 or hl2, and you can just ignore all the 'omg hl2' comments. :)
     
  12. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    From gameplay tests, I was either or discovered some interesting things:

    -the mines were liked (this suprised me a little)
    -its possible the method to turn off the team capture points arent working consistantly, one person was saying that they couldnt cap. I just couldnt tell if they were going to the right place or not as i was across the map.
    -bunker is a little cramped (cant fix this without a complete rebuild)
    -the choke points are a little too tight
    -i really hated the concrete floor in the slanted bunker entrance, the reflection annoys the crap out of me.
    -outside needed more obsticals to prevent a sniper from just having a field day...not sure i agree as I never got shot by one and there were plenty out there.
    -while too slow, people liked the doors. it was possible to shoot through the gaps between the sections (designed for that actually) the windows in them also allowed for both defenders and attackers to know what to expect so they could plan ahead. So big lesson here is make doors from start rooms that make it possible for people leaving a spawn room know if they are going to get spawn camped...
    -stairs were bouncy, a clip brush was suggested, definatly a good idea.

    the cramped bunker probably kills any potential to progress the map...i really have no desire to completely redesign the bunkers. As a theory test as opposed to a serious build, it worked out fairly well and about what I expected.

    oh, almost forgot...Look MrMuffinMan there was actually tf2 textures in it...
     
  13. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    I tried to make a sand texture that's somewhat tf2 styled. I used the sandfloor009a texture as a base and then just had a quick turn through photoshop and this is how it came out: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn220/Ravidge/tf2/sand0000.jpg

    The left side got a very weak normalmap, makes it look smooth from a distance but a little rougher up close.
    The right side is the same texture with a greater normalmap. It's infact the highest I could go without it looking like total ass. I wanted to show what range of normalmapping was available, that means any normalmap settings in between these 2 could easily be made to suit the map.

    I'm not very good at making textures, but I wanted to show that it is possible to make sand for tf2.

    The problem as I see it with hl2 textures is that the level of detail is too great compared to the style of tf2. It looks... busy? and draws attention from the silhouettes and projectiles etc. making the game flow less smoothly.
     
  14. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    I don't think it overshadows a review....however, it will dominate the review. It's really difficult to put into words, but when I was testing your map it felt like I was playing something other than TF2. If kind of felt like someone had taken a HL2 map and (lazily) just made the necessary changes so that it would run in TF2 (even though that obviously wasn't the case).

    So, while you seem tempted to blow off people bitching about the textures as people just bitching about the textures - it's more than that. It greatly effects how the map 'feels' when you play it.

    Obviously, people feel more strongly about the texture than you expected, but I think you should be thankful for that feedback rather than defensive. If you don't want people to comment about it, it would (slightly) help to put a disclaimer in the original post along the lines of: "If you don't like the texture, tough titties, I'm not changing it." (though ppl would likely still bitch, it might reduce it some).

    As far as a complete review - I can't do that without playing it with more than 6 people, please submit it for gameday.
     
  15. Dox

    Dox L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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  16. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    I had 12 in it at one point, the tunnels entering the bunkers were too tight and it became fairly unplayable. So, its pretty much dead because I cant stretch out the bunker without making the outside area even larger.

    I wont be available for this weeks review anyways as I will be working.
     
  17. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    you don't physically have to be there.

    We have Source TV running, meaning you can download a recording and rewatch the entire match as if you were a spectator at any time. The demo also records voice chat and text chat, so you can catch any and all spoken and typed comments.

    And don't forget the good old fashioned Player Feedback. (And if they don't leave comments then just give the thread a bump then they'll take notice)
     
  18. Dox

    Dox L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    never seen this work yet, unfortunately.
     
  19. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    really?

    :(