cp_observatory

[FLOOR_MASTER]

We played a few 15v15 rounds on 2f2f just now (b2). Quick reaction: The map has a simple, intuitive layout. Players were able to figure everything out almost immediately.

In its present form, the map is too difficult for RED. The punishment for losing B is too severe (B is NOT useless - in fact, it gave BLU a very strong advantage during our playtests).

One idea may be to open up a path from RED spawn to C below the current bridge that is destroyed when B is captured. That new path should always be open, however RED still loses the bridge/height advantage if B is lost.

A second idea, as others have suggested, would be to restrict A-B to being captured in order, however I'd lean towards leaving all 3 points open since I like the idea of giving BLU a choice between what advantage they want to have.

Maybe you can lock down C and have it unlock only after A or B is captured?

In either case, please continue working on this; I'd love to include it in my rotation after the balance issues are sorted out.

 

[Icarus]

It's nice that opinions are not fully unanimous, which means I did a decent first stab at balance.

But what most people seem to agree for B2 is that RED's respawn for their last stand is too long when coupled with the following long trek

<3 Floor Master

 

[Chilly]

Maybe you can lock down C and have it unlock only after A or B is captured?

This was the popular suggestion on our server as well.

 

[kaplan]

I would love to see this map as a true Gravelpit style map honestly, and I think by locking up C it would resolve some of the balance issues regarding C. Points A and B can be used as staging areas to attack C as Chilly suggested. However, Icarus was influenced by cp_steel when making his map so he may be set in having the same game mode. Is there a possibility that you might consider trying the Gravelpit game mode to see how it plays out?

 

[Chilly]

I'd be interested in seeing how it works as a normal Gravelpit style map as well. I know that's not the goal, but there's a serious lack of those types of maps and it'd be a lot easier to balance. It'd require some other changes to the map (make path from B to C wider?, change gates from bluespawn to C into windows? etc), but it'd be interesting to see how it plays out compared to the current style.

 

[Icarus]

Beta 3 has been released!
Download from TF2Maps

-Fixed players getting stuck in spawn doors
-Fixed "one way door"
-Changed respawn times
-Replaced staircase to Control Room with one large ramp
-Added more routes to C for attackers
-Capturing A now opens additional entries to C
-Capturing B now opens main entrance door
-Added an extra route to C for defenders
-Raised walls and added cover for B, to reduce spam from attackers
-Locked Point C until either A or B is captured
-Shuffled item placement; added more
-More detail
-More optimization

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

Thanks for the update! I've run a few 15v15s rounds, but I haven't gotten a feel for what works or doesn't. I'll continue to playtest it and keep you posted.

 

[Uriak]

We had a enjoyable test session last night with the b3. People complained that B should have been only available after A, but I don't think so. This round, the blu took quite quickly A then B, and after 5 minutes, C would fall. Second round, the defense almost left A (and the whole blu team came to cap it) then sucessfully defended both B and C.

 

[Icarus]

Awesome, and here I had a feeling I left C too easy and B too hard; perhaps I was closer to what I wanted than what I thought.

 

[Icarus]

I'm stumped.

I can't seem to decide how C should be like.

Thanks to the good folks at the [-Q-] clan, I was able to test it in person.

Most people didn't like:
- Long respawns for both teams, they said they spent more time waiting or running to the front lines than actually playing
- C is too open, too much of a mad scramble
- Still a tad hard for RED

Since the points are almost exactly the same distance between both spawns, I think I can set a static spawn time of 10 for RED, and 5 for BLU, with no penalties or rewards for capping/losing points, rather than the 20-10 I have now.

A and B are nicely done so far IMO

as for C, I'm trying to add more cover for both teams and reducing the number of access points for BLU:

 

[MangyCarface]

I like the map but the center bugs me visually. If you'd be so kind as to:
1. Don't use the hazard texture on more than 1 consecutive brush face. In other words, it's cool to use it bordering that white metal ramp there, but pick a different metal texture for the side- it ends up visually jarring otherwise. Same goes for the center point, have the hazard strips on top but a metal trim on the side.
2. The metal grate stairs that lead up to the point look 'uncontained'. Use either a solid metal texture or add trim brushes to their sides, so that it doesn't look like a really odd "cage" for every step.
3. Vary your floor textures in this area, and possibly add a hazard strip or metal trip around the pit itself.
One other comment: On red, after blu takes both A and B, it's pretty annoying to take damage every time you run through the forward gate of the spawn room (after hitting the ground) Raise the ground up underneath there? Also, sometimes it's a better strategy (because they're able to) for BLU to spawncamp the shit out of RED and THEN take the middle point. Blue engineers face no resistance to blindsiding RED out of spawn with surprise sentries; a whole base can be set up there. Something to consider, at least.

Map's fun, keep up the good work.

 

[Icarus]

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm going to lower the Control Room by a whole story, so It should fix many problems

 

[Icarus]

Beta 4 Released on October 6th, 2008
Download from TF2Maps

-BLU can now return to the upper spawn room without respawning
-Both teams can now access enemy spawns during humiliation
-Reduced number of BLU's access points to C
-Added new routes to the Control Room, accessable by capturing B
-Added more cover on C for both teams
-Lowered the Control Room
-Reduced spawn time for BLU; removed adjustments capturing points made
-Added more access points to B
-Reduced capture times
-Shifted locations of items; added more
-More polish

 

[MangyCarface]

Awesome, dling to play tonight.

 

[Icarus]

It's funny.

At first I see RED win most of the time.

As I am drafting up a new version I start seeing BLU win most of the time.

Everyone keeps telling me it's either too difficult or too easy for BLU.

 

[toutfou]

At first I see RED win most of the time.

As I am drafting up a new version I start seeing BLU win most of the time.

Everyone keeps telling me it's either too difficult or too easy for BLU.

Be wary of early playtest feedback such as that - especially if the servers are filled with players who're trying to learn the map, mixed in with a few who know it.

People were complaining on some of my recent playtests that it was too difficult for Blu to escape their spawn - but Red was more experienced with the level and Blu also were not cooperating as a team.

It's good to have some ideas as to how to balance it out in future, if needed, but try and leave it to see if the problem remains or if it resolves itself as the experience grows.

 

[Icarus]

The server I'm on is almost always full at 32 players and my map comes up in rotation 3-4 times a day, and gets roughly 3 rounds each time.

Perhaps I am just worrying too much. I should wait at least a week before I make any decisions. I like how the map is laid out as it is now, so any future updates would just be balance tweaking and more polish.

Thanks.

 

[toutfou]

The server I'm on is almost always full at 32 players and my map comes up in rotation 3-4 times a day, and gets roughly 3 rounds each time.

Perhaps I am just worrying too much. I should wait at least a week before I make any decisions. I like how the map is laid out as it is now, so any future updates would just be balance tweaking and more polish.

Thanks.

I'm guessing you can't get source tv recordings from it? I play mine roughly 2 - 3 times a week for 3 or so hours, 24 max. It's all recorded so I can sit back and watch the areas people are discussing. By watching these you can also see that really small changes can effect things dramatically - i.e. turning a normal 2 way path into a one way, adding a drop down exit or opening up a new, small side corridor.

 

[Icarus]

I understand.

I'll keep on working to get it right

 

[Icarus]

Most rounds played out like this:

A and B were captured quickly, and either BLU won quickly after that or the game drew out 10 minutes on the assault on C. Hopefully some changes (nothing major) will even out the action.

Beta 5 Released on October 12, 2008
-BLU Spawn is now less campable
-BLU Engineers can now build teleporter entrances in general peace
-Re-added respawn times from beta 3
-Added more viable sniper nests
-Removed a route to A for attackers; modified layout of warehouse
-Lowered fences on B
-Enlarged upper catwalk on B
-Closed lower entrances to C for attackers; reopened upper corridors
-Shuffled pickups
-More polish