CTF Biomass RC1

[Randdalf]

itt jealous map makers with no understanding of mid to high level gameplay complain about swaty and his maps

:facepalm:

 

[Hellfire]

and yes,i can agree with nova abou mid. You should make it feel more like mid . For example add a hole in the cave with light going from it, or even more, open the central area

 

[lana]

SWATY, I like how far you've come with maps like Mainline that have had numerous improvements over their development. I think you could apply that same strategy here. First I think you need to revise the intel rooms, though. Add a catwalk or something that allows players to bypass the main entrance, but also allows a vantage point into the room. You also need to work on the base designs. Consider using the red stripe in Gorge, and maybe download and add in the blue stripe that Engineer released. It'd really help differentiate the two areas and keep players aware of where in the world they are.

 

[S.W.A.T.Y]

So besides all the little visual glitches here and there that needs to be fixed, gameplay wise, just add another way out of the intel room ? and also do you think I should add rails like I have on the catwalks on the sides to make it a little harder for the pyro to airblast you into the water or should I leave it like that easy for a pyro to push you down?

 

[Penguin]

I think you should have a stairwell go to the roof of the intel hall and building, and shatter one of the glass panes in the dome on top. this provides a height advantage and a decent flanking position for demos looking to take out sentries.

 

[owly-oop]

I don't think that will solve a sentry being OP, because if you (perspective: when intel is behind you) place a sentry against the left wall, the only way to outrange it from the path that is infront of the defenders spawn

 

[Penguin]

You have a point, but another route on the exact same level does not help much either. A sentry placed in the middle of that room is still gonna be op.

 

[lana]

I think combining the two ideas, having a side walkway and a staircase that branches off of it, will make the intel room much more open and would reduce the ability to lock it down. The top path obviously adds the height advantage while preventing players from getting back down, while the side path lets sneaky players slip by defenders that are leaving their spawns. Railings are definitely advisable. Good ideas!

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

There are several things I want to say about is project, but first off I have to say that the quality of the large scale detail and sense if location rivals is by far the best you have done, rivaling that of the best maps out there. That said, this is coming from someone who plans to use the hydro theme in my own map (I can only hope to do so well) and has not yet walked through the map. All the comments on the map's gameplay seem to be sincere, though, and from what I can see in the screens I agree. This map shows that you've grown as a mapper in your ability to work with a theme, but you should also really try to address gameplay issues.

That said I that you have any intention at all of this being played competitively, you need to make a choice. Leaving the railings off could potentially be greets for pyres and FaN scouts in an otherwise unforgiving CTF map (for it's linearity). Otherwise, I'm sure someone will bitch about the lack of railings.

-FoX

 

[S.W.A.T.Y]

Well, I dont think I want snipers above the intel(top path), they'd just sit there and pwn thats why im a little against it. Also, I support the idea of the railings.

 

[TMP]

After some looking around on this map, I have come up with some major points, good and bad, that I think help embody this map. Good points will be Green, Bad points will be red. Note that I do not have any definite testing notices.

The map is visually pleasing in thematics
You pull off a hydro theme very nicely. Your buildings and displacements capture a nice look of the hydro style. I can pretty much tell that a good bit of the displacement work is not done (like the inside of the caves, that is clearly you just clicking subdivide for those columnar objects), but the general feel is very nice.

The map has plenty of skill jumps as far as I could tell
Skill jumps are a trait I enjoy there being in a map. Most maps have some jumps that just require some skill to do, which adds in dynamicism to the gameplay and makes it more fun for longer.

The map overall looks too precarious to explosive damage
Normally I'm thinking "Sweet! I love pushing people into deathpits", as that is the pyro in me and nothing makes me feel better than seeing a scout fall to his death. On the other hand, there seem to be way too many opportunities for this. The final area is fine (aside from maybe adding railings to the outside of your final passages, I feel), but the staging area into the base could use some lightening up on it, or perhaps you can implement in this next one.

There are areas you can land in that force you to commit suicide.
This is a BIG no. If I fall into a pit and it doesn't kill me, there better be a way out of that damn pit. This is the staging area into the base, there are small ledges there that you can fall on. On the other side of the pipes. I suggest you add some method, even if it is one thin pathway, out of that ledge system. It would help ease potential frustration.

Bases lack large ease of differentiation
Basically, only small details and lighting changes tell me if I'm in blue's base or red's. Personally, this isn't a problem for me, but there are many people out there who can't find a door right in front of their face. Add some more obvious indicators, like the red or blue stripes in gorge on the main buildings and the dam.

The map doesn't do a great job of guiding
When I go out of spawn, I want to go to the fight generally. After one time, I can do that by myself easily. The first time I went out of the spawn, natural progression led me to turn left. Its a small issue in the end, but it could become an issue.

The map itself is of good quality overall
Not much more to say other than that. It felt like a good map when I ran through it. It didn't feel like Valve would have made it, but it wasn't that far away. You're a good mapper and maps like this show some of your skillsets. I like your overall usage of geometry and the general simplicity of it. The map also has a public charm to it, and I believe it could work out well there.

 

[lana]

Well, I dont think I want snipers above the intel(top path), they'd just sit there and pwn thats why im a little against it. Also, I support the idea of the railings.

Then perhaps you can just remove a window and let soldiers and demomen hop up there?

 

[S.W.A.T.Y]

I think what Im going to do is add that side route to the intel room and remove the windows so a demo can spam pipes/stickies but not let any class get up there, its just for a demo to spam pipes if theres a sentry there.

 

[Void]

For the catwalks and paths overlooking impending death, try doing what Hydro did - but not entirely.

Hydro had a cliff that looked like you can jump off of, but then it put a road barrier there and just playerclipped the cliff off.

You could do that in some areas, as long as the barrier is practical.

 

[mdawgmike]

Looks good from what I can see! We'll be looking at this and Mainline on my community's server tonight at around 8:30pm CDT if you would like to come and see. Add me to your Steam friends if you'd like the server info (don't think we can post IPs here).

 

[S.W.A.T.Y]

So I did what i said before and that is removing the windows(its kinda hard to see but I did remove them) so a demo can spam stickies/pipes, railings on the sides and that extra route to the intel. tell me what you think.

 

[lana]

IMO, soldiers should still be able to reach the roof comfortably and spam rockets down at the intel. It's not like they have any real ranged weapons, and the shotgun deals 3 damage give or take from long range.

 

[S.W.A.T.Y]

so people who played the map said that its way too difficult to get the intel from the enemy's base and I kinda agree. They said to remove the whole middle area, the cave basically because its useless. It takes 33 secs from intel to intel as scout in my map. In 2fort its 24 secs, in turbine its 17 so that makes mine way too long so I think Im going to get rid of the middle area.

 

[Penguin]

I still think Biomass is a misnomer.

That's not the kind of energy being produced.

 

[S.W.A.T.Y]

I removed the entire middle area, the cave since it messed up the gameplay.

Re textured both bases since it was hard to tell which side of the base you were on.

beta 2 will be out tomorrow.