Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by grazr, Sep 15, 2011.
What really goes here anyway?
Thanks to everyone who double tested it earlier. Now's your chance to rip the shit out of this thing
Too much time spent walking, as blue, when pushing 3rd or last.
The second point is hard to defend as the shortcut is removed and seeing as you just got wiped on first cp you have respawntime+walktime and then you can start setting up sentries, but all that takes way to long.
I'm working on a forward spawn for BLU behind CP2, when they cap CP3, a.k.a badwater. I also intend to tweak the spawn times to help a little with the push on CP3.
As with any A/D map cutting losses and falling back as engineer increases the chance of a successful defence at the next CP vs the gamble of a quick win against the remaining seconds at the current objective which has always been an "all in" gambit. This is especially true of payload where the BLU team have to push the objective, rather than roll into the next arena and directly onto the CP. Falling back to CP2 before it is captured on badwater is often the deciding factor on whether it holds or breaks. This is also true of CP3 where the forward doors close causing RED to re-route. Falling back with your teleporter can hold out the next CP for several additional minutes. I'm hoping that when defenders play the map more they will realise this and adapt accordingly.
I do however have roll-forwards zones at the 2 downward slopes between CP1 and 2. I might consider turning those zones off to slow BLU progression.
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I'm having trouble accessing the feedback annotations, i can see them via the feedback page but they don't show ingame on the sevrer. It would be helpful to have a little more feedback in the thread as i may have missed a number of issues from a2e as a result of said !fb issues.
Can't you just go to the coordinates of the feedback in Hammer?
Is the downloadable .vmf not working?
Could you add atleast two support plyons for the first ramp as I am having a hard time thinking it can support itself like that
annotations aren't always that obvious as to what they're being directed at in the non-rendered game game environment.
vmf? not sure whether joke or mistake.
I could. I kinda wanted players to be able to walk around/under it, like spies. But so far gameplay has shown BLU really dominate the low-ground setup area so it might not be that much of a big deal. I could maybe work out some supports where players can still walk under the ramp.
If you go to the feedback page, you can DL the vmf w/ the annotations if I recall correctly.
Oh, well that'd be helpful but also kinda missing the point. I'll work something out. It wouldn't be so much of a problem if i played with annotations on but 160 ping is laggy enough without annotations flapping about all over my screen. Hopefully we can fix the EU server soon.
It's pretty helpful. Uses info_nulls, so search for them for a list of issues.
Yeah, just copy the info_nulls from the feedback .vmf and Special Paste them into your normal .vmf; it helps A LOT. I make them into their own visgroup as well, so I can toggle them on and off as I want/need them.
The new version got played last night. Main problem seemed to be travel distances for RED in order to defend CP3/2.
Any other suggestions at this time? I know there were a couple, but you don't always catch everything when you're also playing.
I did not get much use out of the right flank (as the attacking team) towards the end of the map. It seemed a bit out of the way and the building was somewhat difficult to navigate in my opinion. As seen by the match though, it's a great spot for an engie's teleporter.
Yes, well it's the same as with any far flank route. Like badwater's CP2 and finalé there are far flanks that rarely get used, but when used are to coin a phrase "super effective".
The trouble is when BLU pile in at an advanced position on a flank, RED tend to cut them off with an inadvertant counter-flank move as there's no BLU traffic on the main route because of excessive teleporter usage.
I'm still trying to tweak the CP3-finalé battle and as Rexy already pointed out, i need to implement some way of reducing RED's capacity to push out so far. Perhaps some one way gate usage.
The troubling thing is, as it stands the win ratio over 10 rounds is 50/50 and much of the time RED pushed out so far was because they had the better team with better medics and fired off more ubers. So even though RED can be a real nuisance the tendency is for BLU to still win; i just need to force the battle to happen more naturally at choke points, rather than all over the place.
Thanks for the feedback.
Just a few more little things here that bugged me a bit.
Picture 1: I did not know this was a death pit. The sign wasn't very noticeable and it looked like a side route (grass being gone made it look like a trail).
Picture 2: It's very inconvenient for anything other than a soldier or demo to get here when attacking. The only way I noticed was by taking the route through the building at the beginning of the map. Maybe I missed something, or maybe you intended it to be used mainly by the defenders.
Picture 3: I really, really liked this rock as a scout. Thank you. Haha.
Picture 4: A few times I dropped down here and it would have been nice to have an additional route up besides straight into the attacker's path.
Picture 5: I did not even notice this route until I went back to take a few screenshots. Obviously you haven't gotten too far into that sort of thing, but maybe something to consider when getting there?
I'm pretty new to mapping, so I was looking at this from a player's standpoint. Hopefully some of the things I mentioned will help.
So far i've only seen one defender use the position in pic 2. There's no actual way for RED to get up there without rocket jumping (after they lose CP1); the only direct route is for BLU to go through the hut. But they tend to just rush the payload which i guess is good in a way, even though it means they don't realise the alt path at first. It was supposed to be an alternate route for BLU that gave them some height advantage over CP2 (which is really easy for RED to defend directly from the other side) so that RED couldn't counter attack so easily; but as it stands BLU steam roll CP1-2 anyway because RED gets re-routed during CP1's capture and engi's havn't learnt to retreat with their tele-exits in order to successfully defend CP2.
It's good to get things from a player's perspective, us mappers tend to have a different perspective, and as an author, you know your map better than anyone else which leaves you with a bias that doesn't always work in your favour.
I'm compiling a4 at the moment, here's the change log:
Added minor detail to BLU spawn.
Fixed BLU being able to build in spawn.
Changed small ammo by CP1 to medium
Added doorway on lower path, attackers side, to enter building adjacent to CP2
Removed roof on bridge over CP2 to allow for easier rocket jumping.
Added low railings to some ledges.
Moved large ammo closer to track, before CP3, so it's easier to spot and more convinient for RED defenders defending beyond CP2.
Added hut on left exit of building before CP3.
Added stairs to right flank after CP3 for BLU to better control said flank.
Removed drop down in favour of direct access to second floor ledge in adjacent room.
Removed doorway onto outer ledge previously accessable from said inner second floor.
Added additional dynamic signs at finalé for visually impared RED players who suffer from cataracts so bad they can't see existing signage.
Added dynamic sign for BLU advanced spawn for orientation impared BLU players too dumb to notice they exited a room behind the peviously captured CP.
Increased RED respawn timer by 2 seconds (from 8, to 10) after BLU capture CP3.
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a5 Change log:
Significantly changed the CP3-finalé buildings.
Added custom shell model by Rexy.
Increased interior lighting values in several buildings.
a6 Change log:
Fixed shell collisions.
Added defensive platform between CP's 1 and 2 to encourage RED retreats over "all in" gambits at CP1.
There was a one off bug in a5 where CP1 didn't cap on the HUD for people but i couldn't replicate it, the important thing was that time was still given and the gates still closed.
Removed a bunch of redundant detail at the staging area making the death pit more deathy in appearence.
Added platform at staging area allowing RED more options in how to defend the staging area.
Additional ammo in extra flank at staging area.
Increased the brightness of some internal lights.
Fixed explosion particle effect not firing.
Significant additional detail on the inside of structures, including BLU spawn.
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