- Mar 13, 2021
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- Thread starter SuperLuxDeluxe
- Start date
- Mar 13, 2021
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Since the a1 went so well for the micro contest, I'm going to see if I can pivot this to be an entry for the Rule of Thirds Major contest.
Issues with a1:
Changes with a2:
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Issues with a1:
- B and C were right next to each other. This is because I was running out of time and patience making a1. Sorry!
- B was a bit of a meat grinder for Blu. Blu would essentially have to team-wipe Red in order to cap. Part of this is due to Red's spawn being so close to B. Blu didn't have much cover or routes to work with. While Blu still capped both rounds, it's less than ideal I think.
- On B Red could park a sniper on the balcony and said sniper could come close to holding the point solo. There was a medium health pack to keep the sniper healed. Blu also has a really nice vantage point for B, but snipers used it much less than soldiers and demomen.
- I had some fences with multiple sides rendering which looked weird. I couldn't get them to work properly in a1 so I shipped it like that. Turns out I forgot to make them func_details and that's why I couldn't get the fence to work if it was only on one side. Oops!
Changes with a2:
- New connector added between B and C. Hopefully this will be a fun space to fight in and make B a bit easier for Blu to cap since Red will actually have to walk for a while to get to B. This also removes a nasty sight line from Red's back spawn to B which was useful for crossbow medics.
- Said connector from B to C also has a new flank route to the side of C.
- Added some cover to Blu's balcony on C. This should provide more of a location to stage attacks.
- Removed the med pack and ammo pack up on top of the balcony on Red's side of B to make that sniper spot a little less overpowered.
- Added a new side route into B to give Blu another option and a bit more cover.
- Made it so Red is force respawned whenever Blu caps a point.
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This is a minor bug fix release.
I'm going to resubmit this for another imp since I've had conflicting feedback and the last imp died on my map.
All that's fixed in this version:
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I'm going to resubmit this for another imp since I've had conflicting feedback and the last imp died on my map.
All that's fixed in this version:
- Red's last spawn was always disabled and players would keep teleporting in from the forward spawn, making it appear that Red's last spawn only had one spawn point. Red's last spawn points are now all enabled properly.
- Removed weird clipping on windows that made people walk off the balcony ledge on last.
- Added some more signs to alert players to the flank route on last since it went unused during the last imp.
- Due to overwhelming demand, you can now swim in the water at Blu's first spawn. You're welcome!
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Problems in last version:
Fixes and additions in this revision
Screenshots:
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- Soldiers on Blu could rocket jump up the wall and fire over Blu's first spawn
- Blu's balcony on B was hard for Red to reach and defend against
- Red's balcony on B had zero protection
- Blu's forward spawn didn't face the direction of movement towards the next point which confused some players
- Blu did not see and access the flank route on C, possibly due to the triple tank platform.
- Platform on top of the triple tanks in the B - C connector provided a powerful sight line to B's point while also providing a very secure spot for teleporters for Red.
- Red did not have a high point on C to challenge Blu's balcony
Fixes and additions in this revision
- Clipped the exterior of Blu's first spawn so soldiers can no longer shoot over the roof
- Blu's balcony on B has been lowered and the height of the windows have been increased. Red scouts can now double jump into the open window. Explosive jumping into the window should now be easier.
- Small cover added on Red's balcony on B
- Moved Blu's forward spawn from inside the train station into the building on the A - B connector. Now players leaving spawn will be facing the direction they need to go.
- Removed the triple tank platform on the B - C connector and replaced it with a fence. This should allow Blu players to see the flank route more easily and will hopefully encourage its use.
- Added a vantage point for Red on C to complement Blu's.
- Added some cover for Blu on the flank route to C.
- Added a small fence cover for Red medics to the side of C.
- Widened out the space in front of Red's spawn doors. This should allow for some more cover and space for spies to de-cloak.
Screenshots:
Lowered windows and cover on B:
New cover and vantage point on C:
New fence replacing the triple tank platform in the B - C connector:
New cover and vantage point on C:
New fence replacing the triple tank platform in the B - C connector:
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- Mar 13, 2021
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Summary of feedback and issues in a3:
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I'm glad I was able to get a high player count test because it has made issues with the map are a lot more apparent and I got more feedback with more eyes on it. The map was playing relatively well with lower player counts, and that really affected how I was determining what to do with the map. I'm not going to list the minor bugs here - I'd like to talk more about more severe issues.
Blu has difficulties maintaining control of the B-C connector and the upper balcony.
I think this may relate to Red starting to use the flank route. Unfortunately, Red can really hold down this flank. Blu is at a strict height disadvantage on this flank as well. It's too easy for Red to push through any defenses Blu has approaching the point from this flank and kill any momentum towards C Blu has.
In addition, Blu essentially has three entrances into the B-C connector, but they're all concentrated in one point, creating a choke that Red can hold pretty well. The entrances need to be spread out some more - Currently the connector is far too narrow.
Red's highpoint on C is only reachable one way - over the deathpit and directly through the line of Red players leaving spawn. Spies are not able to reach sentries here as a result. I had a feeling this would be overpowered, but I was encouraged to put it here so I obliged. Clearly I need to make it more accessible. There needs to be more than one way for Blu to reach this point if it will be kept.
I've received more than a few feedbacks saying that A is confusing, but hardly any have really stipulated what they felt made it confusing. Thankfully today someone mentioned that it's difficult to see what's happening in A from the outside and I think I understand what I need to do now. I believe the reason why is because there are too many floating platforms obscuring the point. When Blu's entrances are mostly from below, they cannot properly see the point. In addition, they are also unable to see Red's defenses and identify any weak spots for exploitation. Part of the issue may also come from train cars blocking sightlines. There's a bit too much cover on A it seems.
There needs to be some sort of simplification when it comes to A. I want to avoid just remaking Well's mid though.
I think I need to reduce the number of entrances and platforms. I have some ideas of what to do here. Stay tuned in the wip channel for screenshots of possible layouts and please let me know what you think.
Despite Red being force-respawned on point caps, occasionally Blu can roll through B before Red can even reach the point. So far the two options are to increase cap time on A and to increase the length of the connector to B.
While Blu didn't have much difficulty leaving spawn in low player count tests, it's now clear that they're at too much of a disadvantage leaving spawn - especially when it comes to height. It's too easy for Red to hold down most spawn exits from the high ground just outside of A. While there does exists a great high ground area for Blu to leave spawn at, players do not seem to use it even when other players continually alert them to it. While I originally felt that the area would be interesting to fight in given the height variation, I clearly haven't made it easy enough for Blu to take the first area leading to A.
Perhaps I should reverse the height differential - Blu's spawn would be slightly higher than the train station on A with a dip between. Hopefully this will give Blu the advantage they need and prevent Red from projectile spamming Blu trying to leave spawn. In addition, this will hopefully give Blu more vision of exactly what's happening in A.
Blu has difficulties maintaining control of the B-C connector and the upper balcony.
I think this may relate to Red starting to use the flank route. Unfortunately, Red can really hold down this flank. Blu is at a strict height disadvantage on this flank as well. It's too easy for Red to push through any defenses Blu has approaching the point from this flank and kill any momentum towards C Blu has.
In addition, Blu essentially has three entrances into the B-C connector, but they're all concentrated in one point, creating a choke that Red can hold pretty well. The entrances need to be spread out some more - Currently the connector is far too narrow.
Red's highpoint on C is only reachable one way - over the deathpit and directly through the line of Red players leaving spawn. Spies are not able to reach sentries here as a result. I had a feeling this would be overpowered, but I was encouraged to put it here so I obliged. Clearly I need to make it more accessible. There needs to be more than one way for Blu to reach this point if it will be kept.
I've received more than a few feedbacks saying that A is confusing, but hardly any have really stipulated what they felt made it confusing. Thankfully today someone mentioned that it's difficult to see what's happening in A from the outside and I think I understand what I need to do now. I believe the reason why is because there are too many floating platforms obscuring the point. When Blu's entrances are mostly from below, they cannot properly see the point. In addition, they are also unable to see Red's defenses and identify any weak spots for exploitation. Part of the issue may also come from train cars blocking sightlines. There's a bit too much cover on A it seems.
There needs to be some sort of simplification when it comes to A. I want to avoid just remaking Well's mid though.
I think I need to reduce the number of entrances and platforms. I have some ideas of what to do here. Stay tuned in the wip channel for screenshots of possible layouts and please let me know what you think.
Despite Red being force-respawned on point caps, occasionally Blu can roll through B before Red can even reach the point. So far the two options are to increase cap time on A and to increase the length of the connector to B.
While Blu didn't have much difficulty leaving spawn in low player count tests, it's now clear that they're at too much of a disadvantage leaving spawn - especially when it comes to height. It's too easy for Red to hold down most spawn exits from the high ground just outside of A. While there does exists a great high ground area for Blu to leave spawn at, players do not seem to use it even when other players continually alert them to it. While I originally felt that the area would be interesting to fight in given the height variation, I clearly haven't made it easy enough for Blu to take the first area leading to A.
Perhaps I should reverse the height differential - Blu's spawn would be slightly higher than the train station on A with a dip between. Hopefully this will give Blu the advantage they need and prevent Red from projectile spamming Blu trying to leave spawn. In addition, this will hopefully give Blu more vision of exactly what's happening in A.
Changes in a4:
Screenshots:
- Blu's spawn has been raised up to be slightly above the train station, removing the height disadvantage blu had.
- A has been completely changed into a much simpler layout that actually more resembles a train station.
- A - B connector has been changed to a more interestingly shaped building.
- A - B connector has been slightly lengthened and A has a slightly longer cap time to allow red to set up on B.
- B has a new route to the left of the point for both Blu and Red to utilize. I expect to see a lot of fighting over this area.
- B - C connector has been slightly changed. The staircase for Red to Blu's balcony has been removed so Blu can set up a forward hold without getting easily flanked.
- Blu's balcony overlooking C has had its window's closed off. In addition to this, Red's overpowered highpoint has been removed.
- C has a new flank route to the right of the point. This should allow spies and pyros to more effectively get behind enemy lines.
- Red's forward spawn points have been moved back slightly.
- Red's respawn times have been increased after Blu caps A and B.
- Blu's respawn times have been reduced at the start of the round.
- Signs across the map have been changed to show directions to the various points.
- Item pickups across the map have been changed for balance.
- Several cosmetic changes have been made to details.
Screenshots:
Blu's spawn and outside of A:
A's new design:
New A - B connector:
New route added to B:
New flank route on C:
[/spoiler
A's new design:
New A - B connector:
New route added to B:
New flank route on C:
[/spoiler
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Minor update as I didn't get much feedback in the previous test.
Changes in this update:
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Changes in this update:
- Cover in front of A is now completely solid - no more small slats for bullets to slide through
- Added a little cover to break up a long sight line in the A -B connector and make it seem less open. May still need further modification.
- Adjusted left route into B to be slightly more to the left to break up Red sniper sight line of point and to give more breathing room for setting up on the balcony.
- Moved back entrance into B on the right side route to reduce sight lines from Red balcony.
- Extended right side route forwards slightly to give space for Blu to set up in there if they so chose.
- Adjusted sizes of some health and ammo pick ups.
- Added a few ammo and health pick ups.
- Adjusted locations of some ammo and health pick ups.
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Everything past A didn't really play well at all, so I just ripped it all out and made everything new beyond that. New A-B connector all the way to C and Red's spawn. Hopefully things will play better this time?
Changes in this version
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Changes in this version
- Everything lol
- A-B and B-C connectors entirely new, walking time increased to 15 seconds between each point by Heavy.
- All points take longer to cap now so Blu doesn't roll.
- B and C are entirely new.
- Altered some pickups on A.
- Closed a door on A.
Screenshots of changes:
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A turned out to be a huge issue in the last version. Hopefully this update will fix it and I can get info on B and C.
Issues with previous version:
Changes in this version:
Screenshots of changes:
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Issues with previous version:
- I listened to an engineer player in a previous game and increased ammo on the first point. This unfortunately made A one of the strongest holds in the entire map. Whoops! It also brought out some other issues in the map though.
- Since Red has access to the high ground route that Blu is supposed to use, Red can effectively shut down Blu here and get into spawn camping territory. Not good.
- People find it frustrating getting stuck in the trenches outside of Blu's spawn.
- Blu only has one high ground point on A and Red can hold it very well.
- Blu could still roll. Spawn times were way too high.
- Reverted ammo pack sizes. No more full pack for engies in the best spot in the map.
- Removed an annoying glass wall on the A capture zone.
- Blu's high ground route into A now has a one way door so Red can't push into Blu's spawn area for free.
- Stacked another container in front of the open window so Blu has another high ground location. No longer a one way.
- Brought up the height of the trenches outside of Blu spawn so you can jump up onto the ledges now. Also, I made a ramp in front of the spawn area to get to the left building on A.
- Increased the cap times to be more inline with other single stage A/D maps.
- A - 30 seconds (was 20)
- B - 30 seconds (was 20)
- C - 10 seconds (was 15) I might lower this even further
- A - 30 seconds (was 20)
- Decreased spawn times all across the map to be inline with standard A/D maps. No longer will you have a 32 second spawn time. Really sorry about that!
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Issues with previous version:
Changes in this version:
Screenshots of changes:
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- While the one way door on A did prevent Red from rushing in front of Blu's spawn, it also didn't really help Blu push at all.
- All openings to A could be easily watched by one sniper. There wasn't enough cover for attackers.
- Blu had difficulty running to C as the B-C connector was a bit too open? They seem to ignore the covered flank route that gives them height advantage and a place to set up.
- Red's spawn on C was a little too close and they could peek the shutter door freely.
Changes in this version:
- Made the one way door on A into a door that only opens once A is capped. I may revert this, I really don't know what to do with this door at this point lol
- Added some signs to guide Blu players on the awning - their height advantage on A. They have tended to ignore it thus far for some reason.
- Closed one of the entrances to A and replaced it with another entrance in a slightly different location. Added some cover to the A area so that every entrance can't be watched from a single location.
- Added a little bit of cover on the B-C connector so Blu can hide and run to C a little more safely?
- Added some more signs on the flank route of the B-C connector so Blu hopefully uses it this time.
- Removed a cover prop on C to make attacking easier.
- Moved Red's spawn on C back slightly. Changed the layout so the exit going towards B isn't on top of the route to the C.
- Decreased cap times overall
- Removed force respawn for Red once Blu caps B. I forgot I still had that on.
- Slightly altered respawn times. In general Blu respawns a few seconds faster and Red respawns a few seconds later than before.
Screenshots of changes:
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Issues with previous version:
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- Blu still doesn't have great attack routes for A.
- B and C are difficult for Red to hold as there's no great spots to set up for them.
- A is the easiest point to hold as a result.
- C's exits were far apart for Blu, resulting in Blu possibly becoming unfocused in their pushes. One exit also directly faced one of Red's spawn exits.
Changes in this version:
Screenshots of changes:
- Lengthened the connector between Blu's spawn and A.
- There is a building in front of A that connects directly to it. This allows Blu to set up easier and blocks vis for hopefully better performance.
- Added some containers to the right flank route on A as cover for flank classes.
- Re-added one way door into A for Blu.
- Added a flank route that goes underneath Red's high point on A.
- Slightly shortened the length of the A building. This also affects the high ground cover for Red.
- Removed the route to Blu's forward spawn that overlooks B. This can prevent some potential camping by Red players but also makes it so Blu doesn't have a large height and visibility advantage over Red on B.
- Damaged one of the barn walls on B so Red has better visibility of the point.
- Added a place for engineers to set up on B.
- Added more ammo kits and increased existing ones near B for Red engineers.
- Increased the height of the terrain on Red's side of B to give them more of a height advantage.
- Added a hill to the flank route on B to block visibility. This should help flank classes as well as cut down on sight lines.
- Reworked B-C connector slightly to focus Blu more. Exits to C are roughly in the same location and there is no longer the one near Red's spawn. As a result the battlements for Red should make much more sense. There is now a second, more visible staircase leading to the high ground inside the B-C connector building where Blu engineers can set up.
- Flank route for Blu on C now is less visible from the point.
- Opened up the C point more so Red fight for the point without being directly on top of it.
- Added a "hayloft" on C so Red engineers can set up and other Red players can gain a height advantage.
- Added some more ammo kits around C for Red engineers.
Screenshots of changes:
I hit the image upload limit on this post lol
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Last update before I go into detailing for Rule of Thirds!
Last version played pretty well actually
Issues in last version:
Changes in this version:
No screenshots for this version! It's pretty minor.
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Last version played pretty well actually
Issues in last version:
- Water texture wasn't packed. Oops!
- Ladder on C was a bit wonky to get up.
- Red players often walked over to C when spawning at the start of a round instead of A.
- Red didn't have enough time to set up on B once Blu was capping A.
Changes in this version:
- Packed water texture this time.
- Fixed wonky ladder on C.
- Moved directional arrow outside of Red's forward spawn so it blocks the path to C, hopefully leading players to go to A.
- Slightly increased the cap time on A.
No screenshots for this version! It's pretty minor.
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Slapdash 5 day art pass in order to squeak in the time limit for Rule of Thirds Major Contest.
Featuring:
Images:
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Featuring:
- 2 hour skybox
- Lighting errors
- Seam between world and skybox water
- Probably a lot of bugs
Images:
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Had a little extra time to polish things up since worked dropped me from the schedule tomorrow.
Changes:
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Changes:
- Fixed up the skybox a bit.
- Obscured the bad seam between world and skybox water.
- Fixed up some lighting and light props.
- Fixed up some console error spam related to props trying to use physics models without any.
- Fixed lighting bugs
- Fixed fog, fog now works in the skybox as well.
- Fixed some missing overlays
- IDK probably some other stuff too
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- Mar 13, 2021
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Compiled with both
Don't compile with hdr and ldr kids, just use both lol
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Don't compile with hdr and ldr kids, just use both lol
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- Mar 13, 2021
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- Slightly altered lighting
- Made a lot of optimization changes, including making some windows opaque. Hopefully they still look okay.
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- Mar 13, 2021
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