[ARTICLE] Immersion and Your Map

[Timberjaw]

I just saw this thread for the first time and was surprised to see my map (Third Law) referenced. :blushing: I wish you'd posted your criticism in the ctf_third_law thread as well; it's a work in progress and that's exactly the sort of advice or observation that is incredibly helpful to me.

In any case, great article.

 

[grazr]

If i played your map then chances are i provided feedback in the maps thread, i try not to just feedback screenshots unless there's something that really bugs me in them or someone personally requests screen shot "paint overs" for aesthetic improvements.

Some of the issues i brought up regarding your map were really only minor as i actually wanted to grab examples from another map, but couldn't find it, so i used yours instead.

If i attend gamedays i make a point of providing feedback to the maps i've played, unfortunately i can't play TF2 at the moment because my computers dying on me, so i havn't attended a gameday in weeks.

 

[Timberjaw]

If i played your map then chances are i provided feedback in the maps thread, i try not to just feedback screenshots unless there's something that really bugs me in them or someone personally requests screen shot "paint overs" for aesthetic improvements.

Sounds like you may not have played it. It would have been last December. I got few enough people posting feedback that I wouldn't haven't missed a post

It's no biggie; your comments and this thread in general have made me think a lot about structural supports and building justification, and hopefully my map will be better for it. :thumbup1:

 

[grazr]

I'm noticing a lot of new maps and users in the gameday's so i thought i'd bump this to help with the feedback process.

 

[bobotype]

this guide is great, but really the TF companies have been proven repeatedly to be incompetent, so incompetent design is reasonable too, it's not just lampshade hanging, they're actually that dumb [see Meet the Spy's 1111 door passcode]

 

[Seba]

Blaming the company that makes the keypad for the user-defined passcode to the keypad doesn't make sense imo

 

[Sergis]

but in tf2 it does

 

[wareya]

just remember there's a difference between making ridiculous (really; ridiculous -- like 2fort) bases with fancy facades and making things that are literally useless that nobody would even think of ever even beginning to think about as much as trying to build

 

[xzzy]

The way I think of things like 2fort or Granary is Valved flipped through stock photos looking for an average scene that looked interesting.. in 2fort's case, it's part of some kind of canal system, and Granary is straight out of the US midwest. I mean, this is basically granary right here:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/D...2!3m1!1s0x52ae527e782e37ff:0x90fdbf76eb580c72

Then they pervert the interior spaces with the TF2 shtick. No one questions this setup because hey, it's a secret spy base. Of course they'd stash missiles in an industrial site!

That's not the only way to do it though, gameplay trumps everything. Upward makes absolutely no sense when you step back and study it, and yet it'd be a contender to head the list for Valve's best map. The buildings clearly take design hints from early/mid 1900's mining installations, but those facilities are always built into the side of a mountain, not on top of it.

Example:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ind...a=X&ei=bywkVKuCHZWiyATBlIK4Bg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw

That's basically Upward right there. Well, it was before all the buildings collapsed and the metal rusted away.

At any rate, I guess the takeaway is not that the factions in TF2 are "incompetent" but rather the game world is a child's idea of making normal mundane things awesome. What if that mountain had a doomsday device in it? What if you could fight in a lumber yard with spinning sawblades everywhere? Of course that would be awesome.

That makes the mapper's job a task of merging adult sensibility and childlike imagination in a way that makes sense, but not too much sense.