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The_Ulf
L6: Sharp Member
- May 26, 2009
- 399
- 115
Sooooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuch flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame. 
Can someone start a fight in the bomb_factory thread so it stays on the front page, please? (I'm kidding)
Anyway, in all seriousness, I'm glad there's an alpha finally! I will have no further comments/criticisms until I've seen a playtest so that we can evaluate it properly at last.
Can someone start a fight in the bomb_factory thread so it stays on the front page, please? (I'm kidding)
Anyway, in all seriousness, I'm glad there's an alpha finally! I will have no further comments/criticisms until I've seen a playtest so that we can evaluate it properly at last.
It just doesn't make sense.
Non-stock bombs are fine and all.
Doomsday Devices are fine too.
But, look at how Valve uses those two, it's nothing supernatural such as soul-sucking.
Something along the lines of something that actually looks like a bomb would be cool. I just don't understand the entire concept. Does the "bomb" even blow up in the end?
Because we all know from both Badwater and Pipeline how disappointing a non-exploding Payload can be.
Edit:
Ahem, this was posted before I saw Pepper's post and these are valid questions about the map anyways.
Non-stock bombs are fine and all.
Doomsday Devices are fine too.
But, look at how Valve uses those two, it's nothing supernatural such as soul-sucking.
Something along the lines of something that actually looks like a bomb would be cool. I just don't understand the entire concept. Does the "bomb" even blow up in the end?
Because we all know from both Badwater and Pipeline how disappointing a non-exploding Payload can be.
Edit:
Ahem, this was posted before I saw Pepper's post and these are valid questions about the map anyways.
- May 4, 2008
- 787
- 476
Because we all know from both Badwater and Pipeline how disappointing a non-exploding Payload can be.
I can promise you something more satisfying then a explosion :cool1:
Yeah, Animus doesn't fit for the common public.
Not everyone knows their Latin.
Also, knowing players like those on 2f2f, you'll likely get some furry comments from first-timers. :O
Edit:
By the way, first Google result for "Animus" is a Power Rangers character.
Not everyone knows their Latin.
Also, knowing players like those on 2f2f, you'll likely get some furry comments from first-timers. :O
Edit:
By the way, first Google result for "Animus" is a Power Rangers character.
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What I was saying before was: I think you can make this game-mode work, but not within a map like this.
I know you re purposed an old map to make the current layout. But, I don't see a normal PL layout working for this. On a long, skinny map, why would people fight? The most effective thing to do would be to turtle on your end of the map, and wait for people to run forward into your defenses. But since this is plr, not a/d, both teams will want to turtle. And you know what that means...
You need to come up with some new layout design. Since standing near the cart doesn't push it, the pipeline stage 1 and 2 idea of moving your cart into the other team's side doesn't make sense. Perhaps something similar to pipeline stage 3 would be better suited? Or hell, since people claim this will just be arena, why not try an arena style design? Or maybe something completely different from any current map.
Whatever you choose, I don't think this game-mode will work without a radically different layout.
The other thing is: you need some incentive to interact with the carts. If there is right now... I honestly have no idea what it is. But without some significant reason to touch your cart or the enemy's cart, the payloads are nothing more than a kill-counter.
edit: why is the map asymmetrical right now? I don't get it....
I know you re purposed an old map to make the current layout. But, I don't see a normal PL layout working for this. On a long, skinny map, why would people fight? The most effective thing to do would be to turtle on your end of the map, and wait for people to run forward into your defenses. But since this is plr, not a/d, both teams will want to turtle. And you know what that means...
You need to come up with some new layout design. Since standing near the cart doesn't push it, the pipeline stage 1 and 2 idea of moving your cart into the other team's side doesn't make sense. Perhaps something similar to pipeline stage 3 would be better suited? Or hell, since people claim this will just be arena, why not try an arena style design? Or maybe something completely different from any current map.
Whatever you choose, I don't think this game-mode will work without a radically different layout.
The other thing is: you need some incentive to interact with the carts. If there is right now... I honestly have no idea what it is. But without some significant reason to touch your cart or the enemy's cart, the payloads are nothing more than a kill-counter.
edit: why is the map asymmetrical right now? I don't get it....
- May 4, 2008
- 787
- 476
Yeah, Animus doesn't fit for the common public.
Not everyone knows their Latin.
Also, knowing players like those on 2f2f, you'll likely get some furry comments from first-timers. :O
Edit:
By the way, first Google result for "Animus" is a Power Rangers character.
One problem at a time, eh?
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Speaking of one problem at a time:
Design is best proven iteratively.
You're trying 3 different 'new' concepts in the plr gametype at once. The gametype itself is barely established.
1. Completely asymmetric sides
2. New cart pushing mechanics + associated player teaching issues
3. Single stage plr
This deserved an entirely new layout. Pick one of the three main concepts, assumedly the 2nd, and work on it. Iterate in further deviations from the standard if that's proven.
And although you've taken out the stolen arches, the same dip from GR 2:1 is visible. Still not fooling me.
Design is best proven iteratively.
You're trying 3 different 'new' concepts in the plr gametype at once. The gametype itself is barely established.
1. Completely asymmetric sides
2. New cart pushing mechanics + associated player teaching issues
3. Single stage plr
This deserved an entirely new layout. Pick one of the three main concepts, assumedly the 2nd, and work on it. Iterate in further deviations from the standard if that's proven.
And although you've taken out the stolen arches, the same dip from GR 2:1 is visible. Still not fooling me.
Cut him some slack, he´s done well in borax and for an alpha this looks very promising
An earlier, more rudimental release would have sureley been more suiting for a complicated setup as he has, just to get the glitches out, rather the having to hotfix the first alpha.... but who am i to judge
I like the idea taking it to a haunted mansion level, i like eerieness
Why not open up a new scenario
tf2 is always spytech + maptheme , as long as he covers the spytech at some point, i´m fine
i well appreciate him trying something new on the theme, i wouldn´t be keen seeing this become a desertmap.
Let him experiment
You´ve protested against the watermine, he changed that, now you protest against everything, that´s not the way to go.
Give tips, don´t bash it to the ground.
An earlier, more rudimental release would have sureley been more suiting for a complicated setup as he has, just to get the glitches out, rather the having to hotfix the first alpha.... but who am i to judge
I like the idea taking it to a haunted mansion level, i like eerieness
Why not open up a new scenario
tf2 is always spytech + maptheme , as long as he covers the spytech at some point, i´m fine
i well appreciate him trying something new on the theme, i wouldn´t be keen seeing this become a desertmap.
Let him experiment
You´ve protested against the watermine, he changed that, now you protest against everything, that´s not the way to go.
Give tips, don´t bash it to the ground.
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- May 4, 2008
- 787
- 476
1. Completely asymmetric sides
I decided to go with this because first of all, it gives the map more interested fun gameplay. Harder to balance yes, but still gives some variation and interest.
2. New cart pushing mechanics + associated player teaching issues
Agree, teaching player new things is not easy and most player never learn. That is why at the moment Im working on something that might easy that up.
3. Single stage plr
For now, yes the map has only one single stage, and it will stay that way until Ive bullet proofed the gametype or decided to revert it to normal payload race.
"This deserved an entirely new layout. Pick one of the three main concepts, assumedly the 2nd, and work on it. Iterate in further deviations from the standard if that's proven."
I do not see that the layout is a problem right now, I require play test to confirm that.
"And although you've taken out the stolen arches, the same dip from GR 2:1 is visible. Still not fooling me."
What exactly are you talking about? The wooden walls near reds base at the big tower with the eagle?
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PMAvers
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 29, 2008
- 389
- 142
Ran around it a bit solo.
Noticed there's a slight visual glitch with the carts.
If I'm BLU, and explode, a red soul will show up, fly into the BLU cart, and then the RED cart will move.
Vice-versa happens if I'm RED and explode. Dunno if these show up normally when players are killing each other, and not the console...
Noticed there's a slight visual glitch with the carts.
If I'm BLU, and explode, a red soul will show up, fly into the BLU cart, and then the RED cart will move.
Vice-versa happens if I'm RED and explode. Dunno if these show up normally when players are killing each other, and not the console...
Ok, since I've now played this I can finally comment on the gameplay.
It's unfocused. The carts doesn't feel like a part of the game, more like timers which controls when the game ends.
The unsymetrical nature of the map creates confusion and unbalances the teams. The combat zones are undefined at moves around a lot, and unlike cp maps you dont really have much guidance/fallback here.
I know you're going for a dark style, and there is nothing wrong with that. But in combination with the rain the map becomes extremely noisy.
Aesthetically it looks great, but that is not enough I'm afraid. I hope you can find a way to fix some of the issues with the map.
It's unfocused. The carts doesn't feel like a part of the game, more like timers which controls when the game ends.
The unsymetrical nature of the map creates confusion and unbalances the teams. The combat zones are undefined at moves around a lot, and unlike cp maps you dont really have much guidance/fallback here.
I know you're going for a dark style, and there is nothing wrong with that. But in combination with the rain the map becomes extremely noisy.
Aesthetically it looks great, but that is not enough I'm afraid. I hope you can find a way to fix some of the issues with the map.
- Jan 6, 2008
- 2,289
- 1,372
I played this yesterday, and I'm sorry to say I didn't enjoy it very much. As people have discussed before (or so I've briefly heard), using the souls as "fuel" to make the cart go faster IF and only IF you stand by it would be much better. Whether you choose to make it possible to push the cart without souls or not, I think having people physically push the cart is an absolute minimum requirement for this to be fun.
Doing the above would fix the issue with players camping their base, and it would actually connect you to the objective. Currently, the cart does not matter at all, it's just a physical counter that becomes easier to stop the further it gets into the enemy's ubercampy base.
I'm sure I'd like it if it all made more sense, not to mention I like the theme as well (except the annoying pulsating lights).
Doing the above would fix the issue with players camping their base, and it would actually connect you to the objective. Currently, the cart does not matter at all, it's just a physical counter that becomes easier to stop the further it gets into the enemy's ubercampy base.
I'm sure I'd like it if it all made more sense, not to mention I like the theme as well (except the annoying pulsating lights).
Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 455
- 133
please rename the map to 'dmr_animus' - this isn't a payload race because the differences between the two are too huge. the team's objectives aren't pushing the cart, or defending it from getting to a checkpoint, but seeing which team frags more. essentially, it's a deathmatch race.
Rikka
L5: Dapper Member
- Feb 10, 2009
- 208
- 388
I dreamed of being in your map last night. It didn't look anything like animus, but souls were moving the cart. When I went around the corner where all the fighting was taking place I ended up at school, though.
What that says about me or your advertising ability, I'm not sure.
What that says about me or your advertising ability, I'm not sure.
